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  Reply # 780940 13-Mar-2013 10:07
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I have no pity on the banks - I'd happily give 25% off not having to deal with them directly. For me, it is a matter of principle rather than who gets what. 

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  Reply # 782469 15-Mar-2013 19:57
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A lot of friends in the finance industry have defended the banks saying "They are not a charity or a government department. They are a business. They are there to make a profit. Not to look after people who mismanage their finances".

My response has been this- They have worked their way into society to the point that they are no longer a business the same as a gym franchise, a a mobile phone manufacturer, a bakery, or the guy running the local pub. Those companies are all held to rules about being socially responsible, even though they can be considered luxuries- banks are a necessity, by their own intentions and centuries of working themselves into that position. 

You can not live a normal life in Western society, have a job, buy a house, pay rent, run a business, have accounts with many companies for many services, without having a bank account that can expose you to the obscene penalties they charge. 

The Government needs to recognise that the banks are not merely a business. They are an integral part of society, and they need to be held accountable when they take advantage of sections of society.

Overdraft penalties vary amongst banks, but I know ASB charges around $25, and $20 on an ASB VISA card. These penalties are tens of thousands of percentage points above what they actually cost the banks, and they do not affect the wealthy anywhere nearly as much as they affect the poor. 

Those on lower income brackets are more at risk of being penalised, so the whole system of penalty fees for missed AP's, credit card overdrafts or missed payments, and other such stings, are taking advantage of the disadvantaged. 

By integrating themselves into society so well, they have actually put themselves into a position where people will start holding them accountable for the financial well-being of the community. Riots against banks and the 1% over the past few years are just people venting their anger at the system that was built to rip them off.

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  Reply # 782570 16-Mar-2013 07:56
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I've been told (I haven't confirmed this myself) that the Australian owned NZ banks charge us three times as much for these fees than they do in Australia. Hardly seems fair...

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  Reply # 782756 16-Mar-2013 19:09
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MurrayM: I've been told (I haven't confirmed this myself) that the Australian owned NZ banks charge us three times as much for these fees than they do in Australia. Hardly seems fair...


Yes I saw that in the  new media this week.  Seems like  "lets screw the Kiwis as they  were stupid enough to sell us their banks.."




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  Reply # 782766 16-Mar-2013 20:00
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I dont really object to the fees when they do something, like let a payment go thru taking you into an unarranged overdraft.

What I do is when they charge a fee for a payment not going thru. If I go to the dairy and eftpos with no money, it says declined, and I pay nothing.

Yet if I have an AP/DD, whatever they will charge me a fee for not doing anything. That has to be dealt to.




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  Reply # 782832 17-Mar-2013 07:38
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old3eyes:
MurrayM: I've been told (I haven't confirmed this myself) that the Australian owned NZ banks charge us three times as much for these fees than they do in Australia. Hardly seems fair...


Yes I saw that in the  new media this week.  Seems like  "lets screw the Kiwis as they  were stupid enough to sell us their banks.."


Yup, that's exactly what it feels like! "We can't charge our own countrymen such high fees but lets sting the Kiwis because they never complain and it's not like they can bank somewhere else because we own all their banks!  Hah hah!"

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  Reply # 782835 17-Mar-2013 07:59
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richms: I dont really object to the fees when they do something, like let a payment go thru taking you into an unarranged overdraft.

What I do is when they charge a fee for a payment not going thru. If I go to the dairy and eftpos with no money, it says declined, and I pay nothing.

Yet if I have an AP/DD, whatever they will charge me a fee for not doing anything. That has to be dealt to.


I think it is completely reasonable to allow AP's to go thru and charge a fee, and if you are silly enough to miss manage your finances then you should be penalised to use the banks money.

As far as posters refuting going in to the bank, did you sell something on trade me that month?

I have had this and an idiot on trade me had gone in to the bank to make a deposit.

The class action will fail here in NZ as the banks will just go thru their records and refund the amount themselves as they did with the international credit card transactions fees that they hadn't disclosed.

I for 1 wont be signing up to give these vultures any money, out of the one time I accedently went into overdraft by transfering money in to the wrong account.

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  Reply # 782839 17-Mar-2013 08:37
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Like dickytim...I don't get this at all. Banks disclose there fees up front, when you open an account you agree to those fees, then IMO it's the customers problem if you collect these supposedly "unfair" fees or not. Yet another example of "it's not my fault" mentality that humans are quickly adopting.

Like any transaction you agree to a price and get on with life......on reflection I think I paid McD's too much for that happy meal back in 1996, because they had too much profit mark-up on the lettuce, I better go and get a lawyer and claim back my $1:50 I am owed!!!....

Or am I missing the point somewhere?











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  Reply # 782850 17-Mar-2013 09:13
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scuwp: Like dickytim...I don't get this at all. Banks disclose there fees up front, when you open an account you agree to those fees, then IMO it's the customers problem if you collect these supposedly "unfair" fees or not. Yet another example of "it's not my fault" mentality that humans are quickly adopting.


I challenge you to function in society without a local bank account, or to find an alternative bank with low to no penalties for missing APs. 

Sure, they are disclosed, but that doesn't mean it's wrong. Telling someone you will rip them off does not justify you in ripping them off.

These AP and overdraft penalties are tens of thousands of percent above what it actually costs the banks, and only the poor are really affected by it. It's a tax on the poor. That's is grossly irresponsible, and the banks should be penalised heavily by the government. They have a duty to be socially responsible, now that they have weaselled their way into our lives to the point of being indispensable. 

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  Reply # 782872 17-Mar-2013 10:33
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b0rg:
scuwp: Like dickytim...I don't get this at all. Banks disclose there fees up front, when you open an account you agree to those fees, then IMO it's the customers problem if you collect these supposedly "unfair" fees or not. Yet another example of "it's not my fault" mentality that humans are quickly adopting.


I challenge you to function in society without a local bank account, or to find an alternative bank with low to no penalties for missing APs. 

Sure, they are disclosed, but that doesn't mean it's wrong. Telling someone you will rip them off does not justify you in ripping them off.

These AP and overdraft penalties are tens of thousands of percent above what it actually costs the banks, and only the poor are really affected by it. It's a tax on the poor. That's is grossly irresponsible, and the banks should be penalised heavily by the government. They have a duty to be socially responsible, now that they have weaselled their way into our lives to the point of being indispensable. 


Fair enough point of view. It's not a tax however, it's profit, and banks are in the business of making money for shareholders just like any other business they will do that however they can. I guess it doesn't affect me that much because I don't spend money I don't have.

Unfortunately like others I see see only one winner out of this.... Lawyers!





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  Reply # 782878 17-Mar-2013 11:30
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scuwp: Fair enough point of view. It's not a tax however, it's profit, and banks are in the business of making money for shareholders just like any other business they will do that however they can. I guess it doesn't affect me that much because I don't spend money I don't have. 

Unfortunately like others I see see only one winner out of this.... Lawyers!


I don't have a problem with the lawyers making some money out of this.  Lawyers are a business and they have a right to earn a profit on the work they put into a case.  In this case they will not only be putting in hundreds, if not thousands, of hours of work, but they're also taking on all the risk (if the case fails then they will be taking on all the expenses).

For the people defending the banks but complaining about the lawyers, I find it strange that you're ok with banks making a profit but complain about the lawyers making a profit.  They're both businesses and are entitled to earn money, surely?

I don't disagree with the banks having penalty fees, but apparently the law says that these fees should not be more than what it actually costs the banks to service the debt.  If I'm one day late paying my credit card then does it really cost the bank $25?  This is a bit like the car park fees that get charged for overstaying; the law says the car park owner may charge for any income they've lost while your car was in the car park but they can't fine you as only central and local government have the right to fine people.

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  Reply # 782977 17-Mar-2013 15:50
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Fair enough point of view. It's not a tax however, it's profit, and banks are in the business of making money for shareholders just like any other business they will do that however they can. I guess it doesn't affect me that much because I don't spend money I don't have.

Unfortunately like others I see see only one winner out of this.... Lawyers!



I actually covered this in another post in this thread:

EDIT: Apparently it's a crime to repeat yourself around here, so you'll have to go back some pages and read the original :P

gzt



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  Reply # 783008 17-Mar-2013 16:33
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No, you covered it earlier in this thread. Quick delete edit/delete the post body and say something original before you get a hammered by the mods :-p

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  Reply # 783013 17-Mar-2013 16:46
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gzt: No, you covered it earlier in this thread. Quick delete edit/delete the post body and say something original before you get a hammered by the mods :-p


Umm. that's what I said. What's with having to repeat myself in this thread? haha!

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