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  #785386 22-Mar-2013 11:59
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timmmay:
Lias: Scrap GST. Problem solved.


Scrapping GST means general tax levels need to be raised. That could disadvantage the poor if it was done fairly, or disproportionately tax the high earners. High earners already pay a lot of tax by way of higher tax rates and GST on all the things they buy.


GT is generally regarded to be a regressive tax  (that is,  higher earners generally pay a smaller proportion of their income out as GST compared to lower earners - mainly because they save more and have a higherproportion of their income go on non-GST things like mortage)
So scrapping GST and replacing it with a flat increase in tax of, say, 4% of income (just making up a number) would move it away from being regressive

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  #785387 22-Mar-2013 12:08
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NonprayingMantis:
timmmay:
Lias: Scrap GST. Problem solved.


Scrapping GST means general tax levels need to be raised. That could disadvantage the poor if it was done fairly, or disproportionately tax the high earners. High earners already pay a lot of tax by way of higher tax rates and GST on all the things they buy.


GST is generally regarded to be a regressive tax  (that is,  higher earners generally pay a smaller proportion of their income out as GST compared to lower earners - mainly because they save more and have a higherproportion of their income go on non-GST things like mortage)
So scrapping GST and replacing it with a flat increase in tax of, say, 4% of income (just making up a number) would move it away from being regressive


Well it behaves as a regressive tax in the short run, yes; but over the long run its proportional.

Lets say you are earning stacks of money right now, you might save/invest half of it for retirement/inheritance, so  that you are only paying GST on half of your earnings right now. When you/your kids get around to spending it in 30 years, you will pay GST on that expenditure, and if you have saved/invested wisely you will pay more GST than if you had spent it all today

 
 
 
 


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  #785390 22-Mar-2013 12:15
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timmmay: It's a theoretical $300M in lost tax. If people can't get things cheaper they may not buy them. Also the cost of collecting that $300M may be $200M.


the govt borrows that amount about every 5 days to fund all the expenses us citizens demand, dole, DPB, interest free student loans and so on

they should like at cutting the outgoings like us citizens have to

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  #785392 22-Mar-2013 12:23
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nathan:
the govt borrows that amount about every 5 days to fund all the expenses us citizens demand, dole, DPB, interest free student loans and so on

they should like at cutting the outgoings like us citizens have to


There is an easy solution to that. :-p
Just wish goverment would implement it.




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  #785397 22-Mar-2013 12:25
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One thing that I don't think has been discussed is that the NZ dollar is currently very strong. This makes importing stuff a lot cheaper but I don't see prices of things like books and games any cheaper in the stores as a result. People buying from overseas is basically just cutting out the middleman, meaning our low wages can stretch further.
What retailers are trying to do is protect an old business model, like what the music and movie studios are doing.

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  #785398 22-Mar-2013 12:27
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mattwnz: One thing that I don't think has been discussed is that the NZ dollar is currently very strong. This makes importing stuff a lot cheaper but I don't see prices of things like books and games any cheaper in the stores as a result. People buying from overseas is basically just cutting out the middleman, meaning our low wages can stretch further.
What retailers are trying to do is protect an old business model, like what the music and movie studios are doing.


Agreed. The strong NZ dollar is great. Its just a pitty that its not worth very much in New Zealand

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  #785399 22-Mar-2013 12:27
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nathan:
timmmay: It's a theoretical $300M in lost tax. If people can't get things cheaper they may not buy them. Also the cost of collecting that $300M may be $200M.


the govt borrows that amount about every 5 days to fund all the expenses us citizens demand, dole, DPB, interest free student loans and so on

they should like at cutting the outgoings like us citizens have to


Or they could increase productivity and exports so we earn more. They should get rid of interest free loans for wage earners as that was a legacy election bribe.

 
 
 
 


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  #785414 22-Mar-2013 13:04
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Handsomedan: Quite amazing when you add all of the extra costs like duty, GST and a customs fee to something like a mobile phone, that appears at least $200-300 cheaper from overseas, then becomes effectively the same price as the locally sourced unit with these added.



Except if it's a Nexus 4 then it's about $300 cheaper than the local sold  version.




Regards,

Old3eyes


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  #785419 22-Mar-2013 13:10
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mattwnz:
nathan:
timmmay: It's a theoretical $300M in lost tax. If people can't get things cheaper they may not buy them. Also the cost of collecting that $300M may be $200M.


the govt borrows that amount about every 5 days to fund all the expenses us citizens demand, dole, DPB, interest free student loans and so on

they should like at cutting the outgoings like us citizens have to


Or they could increase productivity and exports so we earn more. They should get rid of interest free loans for wage earners as that was a legacy election bribe.


and the holy grail of unaffordable superannuation


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  #785461 22-Mar-2013 14:42
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nathan: 

and the holy grail of unaffordable superannuation



We pay tax for that, and it actually solves a lot of problems with poverty in the elderly age group. Other countries look at NZs system as very good, and it is regarded as a national treasure, so I don't think we want to lose that. Increasing the age is probably needed up to 70, but that also means we can't withdraw from our kiwisaver until then either. If we were a richer country and exported more, and our government helped small businesses more, we could earn a lot more and not even have to look at cuts.
CGT on houses and a land tax are things I think are needed, as it is one of the only investments that isn't taxed.

Back to the topic. I think that retailers need to embrace their point of differences over overseas retailers. One big point of difference is the CGA. They should really advertise this fact, and even go beyond the minimum requirements. Instead many NZ retailers try to get out of their obligations, and you have to quote the CGA to them to get results, which isn't good customer service. I have noticed however that some retailers are now giving free extended warranties if you purchase from them, which is a good point of difference you can't really get from overseas. 
The other thing is to have stock onhand, as it means people buy instantly. Many things I have purchased from retailers, they have minimum stock, so I don't buy. For example I tryied to buy a kindle paperwhite recently. My local retailer would have to order one in and it could be at least a week. Instead I purchased online from amazon direct, and it got to me in 4 days, and I saved about $30 on the NZ retailers price. Sure no CGA protection, but I have heard that Amazon look after their customers if there are problems.

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  #785466 22-Mar-2013 14:48
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sbiddle:
Regs:
kyhwana2: Hah, try buying Vibram Fivefingers here, unless they're on special/getting rid of stock, it's always cheaper to buy overseas and get shipped via youship. I havn't been charged GST/customs fee's for them yet, but even so they're still cheaper from overseas.


Shoes still attract import duty.  A shop here has to add 25% (10% import duty plus 15% gst).  If you can dodge the tax at the border, you're definitely going to get them cheaper!


Shoes are one of the few things it's worthless ever trying to import. You'll always get stung with duty, GST and then the customs fee. This typically makes them most more than buying them locally.


Not necessarily true. I spent a lot on boots recently, ordering them in from Amazon, paying fast courier fees to get them here quickly, finding they didn't fit & sending them back just to repeat the exercise. There is only one retailer in NZ selling the boots I wanted. Their price was NZD$345 plus shipping from the South Island that they calculated at $45. Despite paying two lots of fast courier fees from the US plus entry fees, I still saved NZD$185. 

In the past four months I've had three pairs of boots and a pair of insulated slippers come in from the US. Only one of those items was available anywhere in NZ. Every single one came in cheaper than any cheap pair of boots or standard slippers I could buy here, even after duty and the other fees. 

If its about protecting NZ industry its not working. I bought some Icebreaker merino layers here before leaving for Canada. When I got to Canada I found they were half the price, even with exchange rates, that they are here. With the end of winter sales now on over there, I can buy one item I spent over $200 on and get it landed here for $60. When NZ-made products from a NZ manufacturer are cheaper overseas then I can only conclude we are being disadvantaged by the size of our market. Being able to shop internationally just evens things up a bit. 

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  #785471 22-Mar-2013 14:54
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mattwnz:
nathan: 

and the holy grail of unaffordable superannuation



We pay tax for that, and it actually solves a lot of problems with poverty in the elderly age group. Other countries look at NZs system as very good, and it is regarded as a national treasure, so I don't think we want to lose that. Increasing the age is probably needed up to 70, but that also means we can't withdraw from our kiwisaver until then either. If we were a richer country and exported more, and our government helped small businesses more, we could earn a lot more and not even have to look at cuts.
CGT on houses and a land tax are things I think are needed, as it is one of the only investments that isn't taxed.

Back to the topic. I think that retailers need to embrace their point of differences over overseas retailers. One big point of difference is the CGA. They should really advertise this fact, and even go beyond the minimum requirements. Instead many NZ retailers try to get out of their obligations, and you have to quote the CGA to them to get results, which isn't good customer service. I have noticed however that some retailers are now giving free extended warranties if you purchase from them, which is a good point of difference you can't really get from overseas. 
The other thing is to have stock onhand, as it means people buy instantly. Many things I have purchased from retailers, they have minimum stock, so I don't buy. For example I tryied to buy a kindle paperwhite recently. My local retailer would have to order one in and it could be at least a week. Instead I purchased online from amazon direct, and it got to me in 4 days, and I saved about $30 on the NZ retailers price. Sure no CGA protection, but I have heard that Amazon look after their customers if there are problems.


you make a really good point about the CGA

That is really one of the only reasons why I buy locally now, is the included 3-4 year extended warranty for "free"

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  #785495 22-Mar-2013 15:16
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mattwnz: Many things I have purchased from retailers, they have minimum stock, so I don't buy. For example I tryied to buy a kindle paperwhite recently. My local retailer would have to order one in and it could be at least a week. Instead I purchased online from amazon direct, and it got to me in 4 days, and I saved about $30 on the NZ retailers price. Sure no CGA protection, but I have heard that Amazon look after their customers if there are problems.


Probably not applicable in this case but sometimes the "delay" in getting stock in makes me wonder where it's coming from. Are book stores sourcing from a local publisher's warehouse or doing an online shop themselves?

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  #785503 22-Mar-2013 15:22
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Bung:
mattwnz: Many things I have purchased from retailers, they have minimum stock, so I don't buy. For example I tryied to buy a kindle paperwhite recently. My local retailer would have to order one in and it could be at least a week. Instead I purchased online from amazon direct, and it got to me in 4 days, and I saved about $30 on the NZ retailers price. Sure no CGA protection, but I have heard that Amazon look after their customers if there are problems.


Probably not applicable in this case but sometimes the "delay" in getting stock in makes me wonder where it's coming from. Are book stores sourcing from a local publisher's warehouse or doing an online shop themselves?


My understanding is that if a store like Mighty Ape says "In Stock with Supplier" they really mean their overseas supplier - their size leads me to believe direct from the publisher.  Fishpond, however, with how slow and crap their shipping is it would not surprise me to hear they just order from Amazon, double the price, and reship.

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  #785522 22-Mar-2013 16:01
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Elpie: 

When NZ-made products from a NZ manufacturer are cheaper overseas then I can only conclude we are being disadvantaged by the size of our market. Being able to shop internationally just evens things up a bit. 


Yea just look at Xero, an online, digitally delivered, New Zealand made application that you pay more for here in NZ than if you were in the US.


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