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  Reply # 864145 23-Jul-2013 11:04
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alasta: I describe it as disturbing because I am beginning to believe that there is an extreme degree of contempt bubbling away between forward thinking urban liberals versus those with more traditional views. The same sex marriage debate is just one outlet of that hatred, and in the future we are probably going to see a lot more of this.


This is true. And while I would like to keep religion out of this thread, it is well known in the Christian faith that in the end times Christians will be persecuted like never before.

I read the other day that a Church in Auckland is now being seen as "Discriminatory"


Radio Network station ZM was going to unite the winners of its Fabulous Gay Wedding competition at liberal Anglican church St-Matthew-in-the-City in central Auckland.


However, that plan has been scrapped because Vicar Glynn Cardy says that a religious ceremony can only be held for a gay couple after they have been married in a civil ceremony elsewhere.


And then we see this

ZM has decided to look for a new church instead, saying St Matthew's decision was "discriminatory". "That's a bit like saying everybody's equal, but some are more equal than others," radio host Polly Gillespie told TV ONE's Breakfast.


Now why on earth would ZM go and stir the pot like this? All its doing is creating hatred and widening the gap between groups of people. Where will this lead to? Who knows? What we do know is that the law change was to allow this so called discrimination. But it seems the new push from the "gay community" here on will be to stop the churches from this discrimination. IE, force them to marry.

This was one of the reasons I never agreed with same sex marriage to begin with. But this is the road we are on now, and unfortunately it is too late to change.

Laws like this cannot be reversed. That takes a revolution. And I believe that's where NZ is heading.

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  Reply # 864177 23-Jul-2013 11:37
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Klipspringer: Now why on earth would ZM go and stir the pot like this? All its doing is creating hatred and widening the gap between groups of people.


I agree. Why would someone want to be married in a church that is philosophically opposed to the nature of that marriage? The only motivation I can think of is an antagonistic one.

Laws like this cannot be reversed. That takes a revolution. And I believe that's where NZ is heading.


I don't see that happening in NZ in the foreseeable future, but the USA is one to watch. Consider some of isolated incidents of violence surrounding the abortion issue - it wouldn't take much for something like that to erupt into widespread civil unrest.

I suspect that in 50 years' time when everyone has forgotten about Muslim radicals we will find that violence between liberals and conservatives will be the new dominant form of terrorism. That's why I'm so concerned about some of the behaviour around the same sex marriage issue, even though I'm not overly concerned about the issue itself.

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  Reply # 864186 23-Jul-2013 11:52
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Klipspringer:I disagree with people who "swing" in their marriages. I disagree with the "swinging lifestyle" just as much as I disagree with the "gay lifestyle.
But I don't hate. I dont know why people always assume hate?


If people want to "swing" in their marriages a) it's none of your business and b) it doesn't affect you, so don't worry about it :)




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  Reply # 864225 23-Jul-2013 12:49
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Cloudmelon:
kyhwana2: Well obviously god is angry at gay marriage coming next month so caused the Seddon quakes! Duh!


Not sure if serious...


I was, obviously, taking the piss out of the goddits.


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  Reply # 864226 23-Jul-2013 12:51
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ajobbins:
Klipspringer:I disagree with people who "swing" in their marriages. I disagree with the "swinging lifestyle" just as much as I disagree with the "gay lifestyle.
But I don't hate. I dont know why people always assume hate?


If people want to "swing" in their marriages a) it's none of your business and b) it doesn't affect you, so don't worry about it :)



People are not allowed to disagree about topics that don't affect them?  Using your logic for example, people should not be allowed to disagree with a distant war or another persons infidelity or the anti-smacking law if you don't have kids. 

Did klipsringer express any worry? I just don't see it.     Are you attempting to portray him/her as a whining worrywart?  

'Disagree' is quite a different word to 'worry'. 

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  Reply # 864228 23-Jul-2013 12:52
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Klipspringer:

This is true. And while I would like to keep religion out of this thread, it is well known in the Christian faith that in the end times Christians will be persecuted like never before.


Oh, here we go again, the poor old tired story of "wah wah, we're being persecuted because people we don't like now have the same rights we do/can do things we don't want them to".

How about you get over it already and realise not everyone follows your crazy-ass religion.


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  Reply # 864229 23-Jul-2013 12:54
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Klipspringer:

Laws like this cannot be reversed. That takes a revolution. And I believe that's where NZ is heading.


And if you want to bring a revolution over stuff like this, you'll be first against the wall, buddy.


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  Reply # 864231 23-Jul-2013 13:00
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surfisup1000: People are not allowed to disagree about topics that don't affect them?  Using your logic for example, people should not be allowed to disagree with a distant war or another persons infidelity or the anti-smacking law if you don't have kids.


Both the examples you have provided relate to the welfare or safety of others. Wars kill people and smacking can hurt (and sometimes kill) children. Unfair comparisons to something that is really about what people want to safely do in their lives.




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  Reply # 864237 23-Jul-2013 13:21
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ajobbins:
surfisup1000: People are not allowed to disagree about topics that don't affect them?  Using your logic for example, people should not be allowed to disagree with a distant war or another persons infidelity or the anti-smacking law if you don't have kids.


Both the examples you have provided relate to the welfare or safety of others. Wars kill people and smacking can hurt (and sometimes kill) children. Unfair comparisons to something that is really about what people want to safely do in their lives.


Oh here we go, setting up a strawman again

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  Reply # 864239 23-Jul-2013 13:23
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ajobbins:
surfisup1000: People are not allowed to disagree about topics that don't affect them?  Using your logic for example, people should not be allowed to disagree with a distant war or another persons infidelity or the anti-smacking law if you don't have kids.


Both the examples you have provided relate to the welfare or safety of others. Wars kill people and smacking can hurt (and sometimes kill) children. Unfair comparisons to something that is really about what people want to safely do in their lives.


my take is he was saying that by your logic he can't comment and use an example to illustrate what he is saying.

To be honest i thought your comment over the top as well.




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  Reply # 864240 23-Jul-2013 13:26
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kyhwana2:You'll be first against the wall, buddy.



That sounds like a scene from Brokeback Mountain

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  Reply # 864247 23-Jul-2013 13:28
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alasta: I suspect that in 50 years' time when everyone has forgotten about Muslim radicals we will find that violence between liberals and conservatives will be the new dominant form of terrorism. That's why I'm so concerned about some of the behaviour around the same sex marriage issue, even though I'm not overly concerned about the issue itself.

Well, isn't the Muslim radical situation in some ways just a specific example of liberals vs. conservatives? On the one hand you have extreme Muslim conservatism with the desire for a religious state etc. etc. and on the other you have the Muslim moderates and secular liberals with the desire for a more open and equitable society. I feel some of that same tension has existed in this debate, though [thankfully] with less violence and abuse.

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  Reply # 864248 23-Jul-2013 13:34
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surfisup1000:
ajobbins:
Klipspringer:I disagree with people who "swing" in their marriages. I disagree with the "swinging lifestyle" just as much as I disagree with the "gay lifestyle.
But I don't hate. I dont know why people always assume hate?


If people want to "swing" in their marriages a) it's none of your business and b) it doesn't affect you, so don't worry about it :)



People are not allowed to disagree about topics that don't affect them?  Using your logic for example, people should not be allowed to disagree with a distant war or another persons infidelity or the anti-smacking law if you don't have kids. 

Did klipsringer express any worry? I just don't see it.     Are you attempting to portray him/her as a whining worrywart?  

'Disagree' is quite a different word to 'worry'. 


I think Adam's point is that anyone's "disagreement" is not relevant to the swing participants. What they're doing is done in their private life and has no effect in anyone's lives, therefore, someone "disagreeing" with it as a moot point.






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  Reply # 864254 23-Jul-2013 13:36
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freitasm:
surfisup1000:
ajobbins:
Klipspringer:I disagree with people who "swing" in their marriages. I disagree with the "swinging lifestyle" just as much as I disagree with the "gay lifestyle.
But I don't hate. I dont know why people always assume hate?


If people want to "swing" in their marriages a) it's none of your business and b) it doesn't affect you, so don't worry about it :)



People are not allowed to disagree about topics that don't affect them?  Using your logic for example, people should not be allowed to disagree with a distant war or another persons infidelity or the anti-smacking law if you don't have kids. 

Did klipsringer express any worry? I just don't see it.     Are you attempting to portray him/her as a whining worrywart?  

'Disagree' is quite a different word to 'worry'. 


I think Adam's point is that anyone's "disagreement" is not relevant to the swing participants. What they're doing is done in their private life and has no effect in anyone's lives, therefore, someone "disagreeing" with it as a moot point.




seems there are different perceptions to what was being said as I took it the same way as surfsup




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  Reply # 864257 23-Jul-2013 13:40
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freitasm:
surfisup1000:
ajobbins:
Klipspringer:I disagree with people who "swing" in their marriages. I disagree with the "swinging lifestyle" just as much as I disagree with the "gay lifestyle.
But I don't hate. I dont know why people always assume hate?


If people want to "swing" in their marriages a) it's none of your business and b) it doesn't affect you, so don't worry about it :)


People are not allowed to disagree about topics that don't affect them?  Using your logic for example, people should not be allowed to disagree with a distant war or another persons infidelity or the anti-smacking law if you don't have kids. 

Did klipsringer express any worry? I just don't see it.     Are you attempting to portray him/her as a whining worrywart?  

'Disagree' is quite a different word to 'worry'. 


I think Adam's point is that anyone's "disagreement" is not relevant to the swing participants. What they're doing is done in their private life and has no effect in anyone's lives, therefore, someone "disagreeing" with it as a moot point.



It was just another strawman.

I said

I disagree with people who "swing" in their marriages. I disagree with the "swinging lifestyle" just as much as I disagree with the "gay lifestyle.But I don't hate. I dont know why people always assume hate?


My comment was directed at the previous post from 1080p:

1080p:
jeffnz: any real reason to drag all this up again apart from one up man ship

I think it is a fair point considering the level of hate by those who "thought about the kids".


My comment was around the word "hate"

But it was pulled out of context. And I was told that "swinging couples" have nothing to do with me.

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