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  Reply # 789344 29-Mar-2013 18:50
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Geektastic:
bazzer: So what excuse will you use if it ever happened to you? I guess you needn't worry, it's just one of those unlucky things that happens. What do they call it, an accident, I think?


It simply won't happen to me.

I never drink ANY alcohol if I know I am driving.

I know, you said that. I meant, what will you blame when you can't blame the one beer you didn't have? And will you feel better or worse about yourself knowing you only have yourself to blame?

My point was accidents happen. If you had one beer, I don't really believe that would be the cause of the accident (given how quickly it's likely metabolised. I'm all for a zero tolerance, it sends the proper message, i.e. don't drink and drive, but how long do you have to wait after having a beer before you can drive again? 1 hours? 4 hours? 24 hours?

Edit: Oops! Looks like I missed a whole page of similar discussion!

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  Reply # 789345 29-Mar-2013 18:50
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networkn: 1) Get a Taxi home (or any of the other services that get you and your car home).
2) Designate a Sober driver.

In case you consider using cost as a factor, if you can afford to drink, you can afford a taxi. If you can't afford both, don't do either!


Actually I very rarely drive short distances as I don't consider private cars to be cost effective for this purpose generally, so I would normally be taking a bus home anyway.

However, my point still stands. If, for some particular reason, I need to use the car to get home and there is absolutely no shadow of doubt that I am within a safe limit then I will drive. If I'm going to have a raucous night on the piss then obviously the car keys won't be in my pocket.

I'm not trying to be macho here and make out that accidents always happen to someone else. The road safety guidelines that I follow are consistent with how I expect everyone else to behave on the road.

 
 
 
 


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  Reply # 789362 29-Mar-2013 19:42
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bazzer:
Geektastic:
bazzer: So what excuse will you use if it ever happened to you? I guess you needn't worry, it's just one of those unlucky things that happens. What do they call it, an accident, I think?


It simply won't happen to me.

I never drink ANY alcohol if I know I am driving.

I know, you said that. I meant, what will you blame when you can't blame the one beer you didn't have? And will you feel better or worse about yourself knowing you only have yourself to blame?



LOL so let me get this straight. Your argument for allowing people to drink and drive is so they can blame the alcohol instead of themselves if they are in an accident? Wow. 



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  Reply # 789363 29-Mar-2013 19:44
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alasta:
networkn: 1) Get a Taxi home (or any of the other services that get you and your car home).
2) Designate a Sober driver.

In case you consider using cost as a factor, if you can afford to drink, you can afford a taxi. If you can't afford both, don't do either!


Actually I very rarely drive short distances as I don't consider private cars to be cost effective for this purpose generally, so I would normally be taking a bus home anyway.

However, my point still stands. If, for some particular reason, I need to use the car to get home and there is absolutely no shadow of doubt that I am within a safe limit then I will drive. If I'm going to have a raucous night on the piss then obviously the car keys won't be in my pocket.

I'm not trying to be macho here and make out that accidents always happen to someone else. The road safety guidelines that I follow are consistent with how I expect everyone else to behave on the road.


If you drink, it's impossible for their to be no doubt. You could be sick (and not know it), or any of 10 other factors that might affect how the alcohol you consumed might have changed your expected input.

I'm still asking for you to give me a good reason why driving after drinking is something you require to be able to do?

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  Reply # 789367 29-Mar-2013 19:53
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networkn: If you drink, it's impossible for their to be no doubt. You could be sick (and not know it), or any of 10 other factors that might affect how the alcohol you consumed might have changed your expected input.


I disagree.

I'm still asking for you to give me a good reason why driving after drinking is something you require to be able to do?


There isn't one. There are thousands of enjoyable things in life that you don't 'need' to be able to do. If you only ever do the absolutely necessary then you must lead a very dull life.

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  Reply # 789369 29-Mar-2013 19:53
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networkn: LOL so let me get this straight. Your argument for allowing people to drink and drive is so they can blame the alcohol instead of themselves if they are in an accident? Wow. 

Huh? Not at all, and I don't know where you got that idea from.

Nice selective quoting BTW.



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  Reply # 789433 29-Mar-2013 21:34
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alasta:
networkn: If you drink, it's impossible for their to be no doubt. You could be sick (and not know it), or any of 10 other factors that might affect how the alcohol you consumed might have changed your expected input.


I disagree.

I'm still asking for you to give me a good reason why driving after drinking is something you require to be able to do?


There isn't one. There are thousands of enjoyable things in life that you don't 'need' to be able to do. If you only ever do the absolutely necessary then you must lead a very dull life.


Right, agreed, but is drinking AND driving required to have said fun? 

I'd certainly like to understand on what grounds you could disagree that it's not possible to be 100% certain you are not affected by the alcohol you drink in your driving?



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  Reply # 789437 29-Mar-2013 21:38
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bazzer:
networkn: LOL so let me get this straight. Your argument for allowing people to drink and drive is so they can blame the alcohol instead of themselves if they are in an accident? Wow. 

Huh? Not at all, and I don't know where you got that idea from.

Nice selective quoting BTW.


Not selective, I quoted your entire statement. I'd certainly like clarification on what you meant if it wasn't what I thought it meant.

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  Reply # 789439 29-Mar-2013 21:43
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networkn: Right, agreed, but is drinking AND driving required to have said fun?


I addressed this above. I don't use a car to make short trips, but in principle I see no problem with driving a vehicle with well under 50mg of alcohol.

I'd certainly like to understand on what grounds you could disagree that it's not possible to be 100% certain you are not affected by the alcohol you drink in your driving?


Because the volume consumed is too small to make a difference to driver performance.



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  Reply # 789441 29-Mar-2013 21:55
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I addressed this above. I don't use a car to make short trips, but in principle I see no problem with driving a vehicle with well under 50mg of alcohol.



No, that's being evasive, give me 1 reason why it's a requirement to be able to drink and drive? Explain to me 1 benefit other than cost of drinking and driving over any other alternative method of transport?



Because the volume consumed is too small to make a difference to driver performance.


Not in every single case for every single person so therefore, it's not 100%. 

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  Reply # 789445 29-Mar-2013 21:59
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jonb: I remember this story from the Herald last year:

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=10835869

I'm a bit of a lightweight drinker, but after 4 bottles of Heineken (1.3 standard units each) I would still be under the drink drive limit but I would be 'wasted'.  2 bottles and I still wouldn't feel safe to drive.



Same here...and I'm 120KG / 190cm. 

My own rule of thumb is one standard drink per hour....which is the amount of alcohol I can metabolise. 

If I skulled 4 beers...I don't drive for 4 hours.... If I drink one beer per hour....I'll drive an hour after the last one. 





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  Reply # 789448 29-Mar-2013 22:19
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networkn:

I addressed this above. I don't use a car to make short trips, but in principle I see no problem with driving a vehicle with well under 50mg of alcohol.
No, that's being evasive, give me 1 reason why it's a requirement to be able to drink and drive? Explain to me 1 benefit other than cost of drinking and driving over any other alternative method of transport?


Convenience, personal safety, availability.

By the way, the cost of two beers is effectively around $5 whereas the cost of a taxi from town to home is at least $20 (or up to $80 for a longer distance) so I don't buy the argument that 'if you can afford to drink then you can afford a taxi'. We're talking about minimal quantities of alcohol here for which the cost is bugger all. Noone is advocating that you can knock back $100 worth of piss and then take the wheel.


Because the volume consumed is too small to make a difference to driver performance.


Not in every single case for every single person so therefore, it's not 100%. 


Of course it's not safe to consume alcohol before driving in every conceivable scenario. However if the amount consumed is very small then the individual is perfectly capable of judging whether they are within an adequate safety margin given the prevailing circumstances.

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  Reply # 789472 30-Mar-2013 00:35
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alasta:
networkn:

I addressed this above. I don't use a car to make short trips, but in principle I see no problem with driving a vehicle with well under 50mg of alcohol.
No, that's being evasive, give me 1 reason why it's a requirement to be able to drink and drive? Explain to me 1 benefit other than cost of drinking and driving over any other alternative method of transport?


Convenience, personal safety, availability.

By the way, the cost of two beers is effectively around $5 whereas the cost of a taxi from town to home is at least $20 (or up to $80 for a longer distance) so I don't buy the argument that 'if you can afford to drink then you can afford a taxi'. We're talking about minimal quantities of alcohol here for which the cost is bugger all. Noone is advocating that you can knock back $100 worth of piss and then take the wheel.


Because the volume consumed is too small to make a difference to driver performance.


Not in every single case for every single person so therefore, it's not 100%. 


Of course it's not safe to consume alcohol before driving in every conceivable scenario. However if the amount consumed is very small then the individual is perfectly capable of judging whether they are within an adequate safety margin given the prevailing circumstances.


If these individuals were indeed capable of judging whether they are within an adequate safety margin, presumably they would do that now and we would never have anyone stopped for DUI?

Sorry but most of the gimps you see on Police 10-7 being hauled over look as though they have escaped from either prison or a gypsy camp and can barely string a coherent sentence together. I wouldn't trust them with a decision as important as whether they are fit to drive having been in the pub.





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  Reply # 789473 30-Mar-2013 00:48
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Certain blood concentration of Alcohol and certain amount of fatigue impair drivers to the same exact extent ... A maths test for fatigue needed?

Alcohol impairs ... But so do other stuff ... Fatigue, peers (teens way more likely to crash if other teens on board), kids, arguing couple, hot pies, rain, thinking about business, etc ... But no, just put the alcohol limit to zero and the world is cured ....

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  Reply # 789474 30-Mar-2013 00:49
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Scotland, Germany, France and Spain all have 50 mcg limits.

That means that one pint could put some people over the limit. That seems a workable solution to me.

They also deal with them somewhat more harshly than our wet lettuce judges seem to here.

Under current laws, which apply to the whole of Britain, drink-drivers face a maximum sentence of six months in prison, a fine of up to £5,000 and a 12-month ban.

That seems fair enough. The main problem we have is that there are still too many who think their right to drink and drive trumps anyone else's right not to be killed or injured by them. Sure, there are many factors that can contribute to a car accident but since alcohol is a definite factor and could easily be excluded it seems dumb not to.





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