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ajobbins
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  #807204 29-Apr-2013 11:39
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To me, it's fairly obvious that Tui's intent with this ad was to play on the 'children often don't really like their new step parent' in line with the marriage act changes. I think it's funny and to think it's a homophobic statement is a bit far fetched (Tui has even clarified it's not).

Far from the worst Tui billboard I've seen.




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Mark
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  #807208 29-Apr-2013 11:41
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Nah I just looked at it, thought "that's funny", sniggered a bit and then promptly dropped it out of my mind as I went to read what other people thought about it.

I'm actually more curious about seeing other peoples reactions, and their reasoning behind their reaction ... interesting seeing how people tick :-)
Also interesting when people think for other people, so saying stuff like "oh my gosh those poor people must be soooooo offended, we must scream and shout and make a fuss!" :-)

So I'm guessing everyone replied so far is straight ?
Any gay/homesexual/lesbian people here who are qualified to be offended want to step forward and say what they actually think on the billboard ?

 
 
 
 


Klipspringer
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  #807220 29-Apr-2013 11:49
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What I find really odd is that people seems to live in this bubble of “Don’t offend anybody”. People getting offended is part of life and we are always going to have the offended.

Offense can never be given, only taken.

Tui is offending nobody. If anybody is offended over the add well then they choosing to get offended.

Just my 2cents…

NonprayingMantis
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  #807240 29-Apr-2013 12:19
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Klipspringer: What I find really odd is that people seems to live in this bubble of “Don’t offend anybody”. People getting offended is part of life and we are always going to have the offended.

Offense can never be given, only taken.

Tui is offending nobody. If anybody is offended over the add well then they choosing to get offended.

Just my 2cents…


you can't choose to be offended anymore than you can 'choose' to believe in god or 'choose' to be gay.  Being offended is a reactive thing, not a choice. (you can, of course, choose whether to voice your offence or keep it to yourself)

Of course, there is no right to not be offended either so if Tui want to publish ads that are going to offend people (whether by accident or intentionally) they are absolutely free to do so in just the same way that Fred Phelps has the right to spew his hate speech about how "God hates F@gs" all the time.
They absolutely have that right to say whatever they want (within the bounds of advertising standards  in tui's case of course)

But that doesn't mean people shouldn't be offended over anything, and it doesn;t mean that just because something doesnt offend you that makes it not offensive to other people too.





DonGould
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  #807242 29-Apr-2013 12:20
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NonprayingMantis:

Maybe they should release a series of them based on the same joke and see how well they go down:

"Dad's new asian wife seems nice... yeah right"
"Dad's new maori wife seems nice... yeah right"
"Dad's new samoan wife seems nice..yeah right"
"Dad's new disabled wife seems nice...yeah right"
"Dad's new 140kg wife seems nice....yeah right"



Those are all offensive.

The difference is that none of those are currently typical, so no one could be seen as just poking a bit of fun for advertising advantage.

Tui isn't making a political statement, it's simply poking fun at a topical issue to drive brand awareness.

There is a difference and I think it's important that we see it.




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NonprayingMantis
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  #807248 29-Apr-2013 12:29
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DonGould:
NonprayingMantis:

Maybe they should release a series of them based on the same joke and see how well they go down:

"Dad's new asian wife seems nice... yeah right"
"Dad's new maori wife seems nice... yeah right"
"Dad's new samoan wife seems nice..yeah right"
"Dad's new disabled wife seems nice...yeah right"
"Dad's new 140kg wife seems nice....yeah right"



Those are all offensive.

The difference is that none of those are currently typical, so no one could be seen as just poking a bit of fun for advertising advantage.

Gay marriage isn't typical either and those ads are the same joke as the one in the OP, but substituting the normal, generic, 'wife'  for a particular group of people who society has often shunned or disparaged (and in many cases still does, albeit less overtly)



Tui isn't making a political statement, it's simply poking fun at a topical issue to drive brand awareness.

There is a difference and I think it's important that we see it.

the fact that it is topical is exactly why it is more offensive to some people.  If gay marriage was an absolute societal norm and people were just as likely to marry homosexually as hetrosexually and there was no stigma associated with it,  then making this ad would not be deemed offensive towards gay people IMO.  But since it is so topical right now, and many people do place a huge stigma on gay marriage, dont you see how it can be easily interpreted differently to be the same implications as the "dads new Maori wife seems nice" ad - which you agree IS offensive?


SaltyNZ
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  #807250 29-Apr-2013 12:30
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Question -- would it still be offensive if it simply said:

"Dad's new wife seems nice ... yeah right"?




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NonprayingMantis
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  #807262 29-Apr-2013 12:34
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SaltyNZ: Question -- would it still be offensive if it simply said:

"Dad's new wife seems nice ... yeah right"?


no, because that is generic and the norm and therefore the implication is that the reason for the dislike of the wife is personal, rather than because of her sexuality/sex or some other factor. 
But by calling out a difference from the norm (e.g. dad's new husband, maori wife, disabled wife etc) the implication becomes that the reason for the dislike is due to this difference from the generic, and hence people will get offended by it)


You might say this is double standards, and you would partially be right, but you need to consider the history that is associated with these kinds of discrimination. 
There isn't a history of white, straight men being considered inferior to non-whites/gays/females, so it's not really a problem when this happens in the media (look at all the sitcoms that revolve around the white, straight, dad being a complete dufus - modern family, simpsons, family guy, american dad, married with Children, My Family, Home Imporvement etc etc) but when you start making the black person, or the gay person, or the female, clearly inferior to the white person the history behind it comes through and some people will perceive it as offensive, even if that was not the intent.



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  #807273 29-Apr-2013 12:43
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NonprayingMantis: 

no, because that is generic and the norm and therefore the implication is that the reason for the dislike of the wife is personal, rather than because of her sexuality.  By calling out a difference from the norm (e.g. dad'snew husband, maori wife, disabled wife etc) the implication becomes that the reason for the dislike is due to this difference from the generic, and hence people will get offended by it)




But equally as such, "Dad's new wife" implies that dad has a second wife (divorced? widowered?), and that it's a new wife that is disliked, that is to say, it's offensive to second wives.

Not defending the billboard; personally I think they went from funny to crass a good five years ago if not longer. I don't think this one is really any more or less offensive to its target than any other. Just interesting that if it's a traditionally easy target (e.g. the Prime Minister, or a used car salesman) we are OK with it, whereas if it's a more contentious target (in this instance, gay marriage) then suddenly it's offensive.

I doubt Prime Ministers or used car salesmen are any less hurt by jokes at their expense than anyone else.




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Klipspringer
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  #807274 29-Apr-2013 12:44
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NonprayingMantis:
Being offended is a reactive thing, not a choice. (you can, of course, choose whether to voice your offence or keep it to yourself)



Got to disagree. Its a skill to not be easily offended. Not a reactive thing.

People are going to try and offend you no matter what. Do you choose to get offended and worked up? (keep it to yourself as u put it?) And wait for it to explode later? or do you try to not get offended? I personally find it easier to try to not get offended.

Easily offended people are unhappy people.


NonprayingMantis
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  #807276 29-Apr-2013 12:47
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Klipspringer:
NonprayingMantis:
Being offended is a reactive thing, not a choice. (you can, of course, choose whether to voice your offence or keep it to yourself)



Got to disagree. Its a skill. Not a reactive thing.

People are going to try and offend you no matter what. Do you choose to get offended and worked up? (keep it to yourself as u put it?) And wait for it to explode later? or do you try not getting offended? I personally find it easier to try to not get offended.

Easily offended people are unhappy people.



you cant choose whether to be offended or not.  You CAN choose whether to respond and voice your offence.

Big difference.

See pulp fiction ( Tongue Out )

INCENT Actually, there's something I've wanted to ask you about, but you seem like a nice person, and I didn't want to offend you.
MIA
Oooohhhh, this doesn't sound like mindless, boring, getting-to-know- you chit-chat. This sounds like you actually have something to say.
VINCENT
Only if you promise not to get offended.
MIA
You can't promise something like that. I have no idea what you're gonna ask. You could ask me what you're gonna ask me, and my natural response could be to be offended. Then, through no fault of my own, I woulda broken my promise.

NonprayingMantis
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  #807291 29-Apr-2013 12:50
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SaltyNZ:
NonprayingMantis: 

no, because that is generic and the norm and therefore the implication is that the reason for the dislike of the wife is personal, rather than because of her sexuality.  By calling out a difference from the norm (e.g. dad'snew husband, maori wife, disabled wife etc) the implication becomes that the reason for the dislike is due to this difference from the generic, and hence people will get offended by it)




But equally as such, "Dad's new wife" implies that dad has a second wife (divorced? widowered?), and that it's a new wife that is disliked, that is to say, it's offensive to second wives.


Not defending the billboard; personally I think they went from funny to crass a good five years ago if not longer. I don't think this one is really any more or less offensive to its target than any other. Just interesting that if it's a traditionally easy target (e.g. the Prime Minister, or a used car salesman) we are OK with it, whereas if it's a more contentious target (in this instance, gay marriage) then suddenly it's offensive.

I doubt Prime Ministers or used car salesmen are any less hurt by jokes at their expense than anyone else.

people choose to be the prime minister and choose to be car salesmen - and the jokes go with the territory. People dont choose to be gay/black/female/disabled. big difference and this is why we protect against discrimination for those reasons and not others

SaltyNZ
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  #807294 29-Apr-2013 12:51
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NonprayingMantis:

people choose to be the prime minister and choose to be car salesmen - and the jokes go with the territory. People dont choose to be gay/black/female/disabled. big difference and this is why we protect against discrimination for those reasons and not others


Yep, good point. I withdraw my question!




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Batwing
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  #807298 29-Apr-2013 12:54
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If people's views of what they find offensive changes with age - then surely that change can be made conscious rather than autonomous. By that token offense need not be purely reactionary, if you are willing to invest time to being aware of your reactions and analysing the reasons that underly them.

If you're offended - you CAN deal with it.


DonGould
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  #807313 29-Apr-2013 13:10
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SaltyNZ: Question -- would it still be offensive if it simply said:

"Dad's new wife seems nice ... yeah right"?


Actually I find that just as offensive, and that's why it's funny.

But it's not actually very funny because the issue isn't currently topical at all.

A second wife is a hard thing for a family and just as hard as finding out your dad is gay, in my view.






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