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gzt

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  Reply # 811006 3-May-2013 20:42
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heavyusr:Oh don't forget there are dogs in new zealand train to attack -police dogs

First - police dogs are not trained to attack. Police dogs are trained to restrain for policing purposes.

Second - Police dog handlers train almost every day - and their dogs are not randomly chosen and may not stay chosen if there are issues.

Consider formatting the videos and other links correctly using BBCode. You will make it far easier to get the context. It will take me and others a while before viewing incorrectly formatted links like that. Maybe later.

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  Reply # 811043 3-May-2013 21:50
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jonherries:

We have a huntaway lab cross, and she barks on command ("speak up")

She unusually is good at protecting us from the weirdos. So much so NZ post decided to send us a letter. This made me quite happy as we always thought the postie was a bit odd. The best bit was the lovely census lady was let in the gate and was allowed to walk unaccosted up to the front door...

Jon

Jon, your example is almost identical to what our dog does.  My girlfriends lab knows the sound of everyone's car.  If a car is coming up the 800 meter drive way and the dog barks, we know we should be paying attention.
When walking the dog in the park at night, the dog indicates its own suspicion to us at dodgy looking people.  We often re-evaluate the direction we walk in when she decides to warn us.

I swear a dogs sense of human behavior is 1000 times better than ours ever could be.





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  Reply # 811068 4-May-2013 02:29
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Handle9:
heavyusr: All those who say you shouldn't train a dog to attack intruders should watch this 4 minute video and tell me whether you still feel that way

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nVlFy9i6Zm4

Oh don't forget there are dogs in new zealand train to attack -police dogs
Police dogs will never be around children and the police certainly will never let kids pat them? Wrong

http://www.stuff.co.nz/southland-times/news/7141864/Police-dogs-ham-it-up-for-school-children



Nope, teaching a dog to attack is still wrong and dangerous. Comparing a domestic dog to a police dog is as logical as saying "Police carry guns and tasers and have as right to use them, so I should too."


Difference is dogs are legal for both police and civilians
If an intruder broke into your home would you rather attack the person with a baseball bat which would mean standing close to the person or would you rather send your dog at him while you are far away?

Out of interest do you think it is wrong for scientists to test medication on animals? Are you a vegetarian? Do you oppose recreational hunting?

To the people too lazy to copy and paste urls here they are

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nVlFy9i6Zm4

http://www.stuff.co.nz/southland-times/news/7141864/Police-dogs-ham-it-up-for-school-children



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  Reply # 811073 4-May-2013 04:34
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DravidDavid:
jonherries:

We have a huntaway lab cross, and she barks on command ("speak up")

She unusually is good at protecting us from the weirdos. So much so NZ post decided to send us a letter. This made me quite happy as we always thought the postie was a bit odd. The best bit was the lovely census lady was let in the gate and was allowed to walk unaccosted up to the front door...

Jon

Jon, your example is almost identical to what our dog does.  My girlfriends lab knows the sound of everyone's car.  If a car is coming up the 800 meter drive way and the dog barks, we know we should be paying attention.
When walking the dog in the park at night, the dog indicates its own suspicion to us at dodgy looking people.  We often re-evaluate the direction we walk in when she decides to warn us.

I swear a dogs sense of human behavior is 1000 times better than ours ever could be.


I wish our dog was like this. Our Border Collie pup will go out of his way to meet new people, which includes that really dodgy guy walking towards you through the park at dusk with his hood up, an RTD in his hand and what looks suspiciously like a pocket knife in his other hand. Thankfully the cuteness overhwhelms all evils.

He makes a good door bell but thats about it Undecided

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  Reply # 811090 4-May-2013 08:21
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heavyusr: Difference is dogs are legal for both police and civilians
If an intruder broke into your home would you rather attack the person with a baseball bat which would mean standing close to the person or would you rather send your dog at him while you are far away?

Out of interest do you think it is wrong for scientists to test medication on animals? Are you a vegetarian? Do you oppose recreational hunting?


Owning a gun is legal however if you try to get a firearms license for a gun to shoot intruders it won't be granted. Having a dog attack someone is also illegal.

Why don't you just leave a loaded firearm lying around your house,it shows a similar level of responsibility? And no I don't oppose recreational hunting or animal testing. My issue with your desire to have an attack dog is that the chances of your dog hurting someone is very high, and that person is most likely to be a member of your own family. I really just hope it's you that gets badly bitten not your kids or a courier driver.

gzt

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  Reply # 811105 4-May-2013 09:16
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heavyusr: To the people too lazy to copy and paste urls here they are

Too lazy to copy and paste? Chill out. Check the BBCode again. You need to use the youtube tag for the youtube link to make it available to watch in page. Don't take it personally, I harass everyone about this..

gzt

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  Reply # 811107 4-May-2013 09:22
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kingjj: Our Border Collie pup will go out of his way to meet new people, which includes that really dodgy guy walking towards you through the park at dusk with his hood up, an RTD in his hand and what looks suspiciously like a pocket knife in his other hand. Thankfully the cuteness overhwhelms all evils.

This is normal behavior for pups. Border Collies are pretty smart, and like any dog he will naturally pick up on this from subtle cues you may not even be aware of, as he grows up.



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  Reply # 811430 5-May-2013 04:56
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Handle9:
heavyusr: Difference is dogs are legal for both police and civilians
If an intruder broke into your home would you rather attack the person with a baseball bat which would mean standing close to the person or would you rather send your dog at him while you are far away?

Out of interest do you think it is wrong for scientists to test medication on animals? Are you a vegetarian? Do you oppose recreational hunting?


Owning a gun is legal however if you try to get a firearms license for a gun to shoot intruders it won't be granted. Having a dog attack someone is also illegal.

Why don't you just leave a loaded firearm lying around your house,it shows a similar level of responsibility? And no I don't oppose recreational hunting or animal testing. My issue with your desire to have an attack dog is that the chances of your dog hurting someone is very high, and that person is most likely to be a member of your own family. I really just hope it's you that gets badly bitten not your kids or a courier driver.


Do you agree with people being able to have karate training?
The dog would be behind a secure fence with a locked gate inside the property. Anyone on the property would know there was a dog there so accepts the risk
Remember that case with the police shooting on the motorway when I think they missed and killed an innocent civilian. Should police not be able to use guns because of that?
A story of a women saved by her dog. Should the dog be put down because of that?
http://www.stuff.co.nz/the-press/news/8350101/Dog-saves-owner-from-armed-sex-attack

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  Reply # 811432 5-May-2013 06:44
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heavyusr:
Handle9:
heavyusr: Difference is dogs are legal for both police and civilians
If an intruder broke into your home would you rather attack the person with a baseball bat which would mean standing close to the person or would you rather send your dog at him while you are far away?

Out of interest do you think it is wrong for scientists to test medication on animals? Are you a vegetarian? Do you oppose recreational hunting?


Owning a gun is legal however if you try to get a firearms license for a gun to shoot intruders it won't be granted. Having a dog attack someone is also illegal.

Why don't you just leave a loaded firearm lying around your house,it shows a similar level of responsibility? And no I don't oppose recreational hunting or animal testing. My issue with your desire to have an attack dog is that the chances of your dog hurting someone is very high, and that person is most likely to be a member of your own family. I really just hope it's you that gets badly bitten not your kids or a courier driver.


Do you agree with people being able to have karate training?
The dog would be behind a secure fence with a locked gate inside the property. Anyone on the property would know there was a dog there so accepts the risk
Remember that case with the police shooting on the motorway when I think they missed and killed an innocent civilian. Should police not be able to use guns because of that?
A story of a women saved by her dog. Should the dog be put down because of that?
http://www.stuff.co.nz/the-press/news/8350101/Dog-saves-owner-from-armed-sex-attack


if you train a dog to be an attack dog and it attacks someone you will be charged. It is a very reckless and childish attitude. I believe using a dog in the manner you describe is disgraceful and should be dealt with in the same way as if you used a gun, knife or any offensive weapon.




Mike
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The great divide is the lies from both sides.

 

 


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  Reply # 811443 5-May-2013 08:24
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heavyusr: Do you agree with people being able to have karate training?


Sure, because we believe people are aware of consequences of inadequate use.

Dogs on the other hand will obey to instinct on top of anything and if that kicks in, not even the owner will control it.

heavyusr: The dog would be behind a secure fence with a locked gate inside the property. Anyone on the property would know there was a dog there so accepts the risk.


Sure. But if the escapes and he bites someone on the street, that person or child would not be accepting of the risks and you as the dog owner would be responsible and charged for it.

heavyusr: Remember that case with the police shooting on the motorway when I think they missed and killed an innocent civilian. Should police not be able to use guns because of that?


Accidents do happen. The difference as explained above is that humans decide when or not to intervene. If they made a decision that was within their duties then so be it, it was a terrible accident.

Having a guard dog is not a terrible accident.

I see no reason to train an attack dog. As a deterrent there are many other passive means that can be used inside a property that do not require putting people outside of the property in danger.




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  Reply # 811444 5-May-2013 08:25
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heavyusr: The dog would be behind a secure fence with a locked gate inside the property. Anyone on the property would know there was a dog there so accepts the risk


This is not correct in New Zealand law. I can't see any further point in discussing this with you given your level of ignorance on this subject. Go and talk with your local animal control officers and police, or you could read the act.

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  Reply # 811479 5-May-2013 10:12
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I don't condone anyone training an animal to attack on command but if a burglar/home invader fails to ignore the dog barking, the beware of the dog signs and keeps coming then they deserve what they get.

95% of people need a watch dog that barks at noise/sight of anyone - that's fine for your regular suburban home.

Those more likely to suffer home invasion or in outlying areas need a dog that has the mental and physical capacity to chase off or immobilise an invader.

Any half decent guard breed will know the difference between someone marching up to check your meter and sneaking around at night.

Those of you who want people jailed for their dog attacking someone entering their property - here is why your argument fails.

My auntie lives alone circa 10kms outside of Chch on a 10 acre block. Nearest neighbour is 5 mins drive away. One night she heard noises and dogs (2 ridgeback males) took off to other end of house and confronted this guy who was breaking in.

Dogs lit into him and he barricaded himself in coal shed but not before shedding considerable blood.

Cops turned up and laughed at the blood and said my auntie was lucky as that guy was off his head on P and also had a history of sexual assault.




 


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  Reply # 811482 5-May-2013 10:15
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And that's ok. These dogs were guarding their area and owner as its their instinc. But I doubt (you didn't mention) your aunt strictly trained the dogs to attack.

Even my lowchen Rosie, a small breed, will bark like crazy if an unknown person approaches the door and she's by herself. That's is what's needed most of the times. Not a killing/attack machine.







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  Reply # 811651 5-May-2013 16:56
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You are bang on Mauricio.

99% of the time a dog barking will scare all intruders away anyways!






 


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gzt

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  Reply # 811706 5-May-2013 18:41
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I watched the video finally. I'm not sure what it was intended to prove in that context. There is a point at 0:34 where the guy says "heel" and the dog starts biting his arm. He effectively lost control of that dog.

Even if an animal has been trained, you yourself will need to invest a significant amount of time working with an animal to become familiar even if that animal has already been trained. Then there are things like regular exercise and yard cleaning etc etc. Too many people who are responsible for animals are just completely clueless about their requirements and end up mistreating them.

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