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freitasm
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  #824532 24-May-2013 08:15
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tedzart: Gosh! I saw the comment from the moderator :Quote "I think people should focus the discussion on motives and reasoning.

Any more talk about the victims and people will get banned."

My opinion is that it will be best to refrain from making comments on Geekzone due to over the top moderation.


As you wish. The problem is that this topic will always be polemic, keeping the discussion on the track is better than leave it to go where things get really hard later.






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MikeB4
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  #824540 24-May-2013 08:36
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bradstewart:
tedzart: Gosh! I saw the comment from the moderator :Quote "I think people should focus the discussion on motives and reasoning.

Any more talk about the victims and people will get banned."

My opinion is that it will be best to refrain from making comments on Geekzone due to over the top moderation.


He says as he fails to refrain from commenting.

Back on topic you can't blame a belief system for the actions of crazy people. People will use their religion as a justification for many heinous acts but that doesn't mean the belief system or religion as a whole is responsible. Every group has its crazies but they shouldn't be held up as representative of the whole group.

People can be religious and crazy but that doesn't mean they are crazy because of the religion.



To expand on your point, people can be religious and not crazy. Are all those involved in IT also involved in Cyber crime, porn and other illegal activity? ..... No. 

Also those who hold religious beliefs are not crazy because of that, in a free society they are free to hold their beliefs if their actions are lawful. Many good things are done because of religious belief either publicly or privately.

The motives of these people will become known in the weeks or months to come. Waiting for that is better than jumping to conclusions based on press reports.

freitasm
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  #824545 24-May-2013 08:58
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KiwiNZ: The motives of these people will become known in the weeks or months to come. Waiting for that is better than jumping to conclusions based on press reports.


And biased press reports at best...






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  #824547 24-May-2013 09:04
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freitasm:
KiwiNZ: The motives of these people will become known in the weeks or months to come. Waiting for that is better than jumping to conclusions based on press reports.


And biased press reports at best...




Agreed, the press is motivated more by mass market appeal and sales and not seeking answers and the truth.

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  #824573 24-May-2013 10:04
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bradstewart:
tedzart: Gosh! I saw the comment from the moderator :Quote "I think people should focus the discussion on motives and reasoning.

Any more talk about the victims and people will get banned."

My opinion is that it will be best to refrain from making comments on Geekzone due to over the top moderation.


He says as he fails to refrain from commenting.

Back on topic you can't blame a belief system for the actions of crazy people. People will use their religion as a justification for many heinous acts but that doesn't mean the belief system or religion as a whole is responsible. Every group has its crazies but they shouldn't be held up as representative of the whole group.

People can be religious and crazy but that doesn't mean they are crazy because of the religion.


yeah, it's usually the other way around.  
Religion doesn't make people crazy.  Crazy people get religion.

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  #824586 24-May-2013 10:47
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NonprayingMantis:
yeah, it's usually the other way around.  
Religion doesn't make people crazy.  Crazy people get religion.


that must be the singlemost narrowminded statement I've ever heard on GZ

NonprayingMantis
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  #824590 24-May-2013 10:58
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joker97:
NonprayingMantis:
yeah, it's usually the other way around.  
Religion doesn't make people crazy.  Crazy people get religion.


that must be the singlemost narrowminded statement I've ever heard on GZ


why?



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  #824716 24-May-2013 13:26
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I don't have to prove anything. The burden of proof lies on the person making a claim.

en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Philosophical_burden_of_proof

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  #824719 24-May-2013 13:30
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Also don't forget "extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence" (unknown)

I guess in making that statement you don't consider it extraordinary on the first place so be it if that's the case

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  #824722 24-May-2013 13:32
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You can't ask for proof re religion. Religion does not recognize proof. Its belief. Its their answer for everything. Ignore what people say, you must believe. Ignore science you must believe. Everything else is sent by god to test your belief.
That's why you can never win an argument with religious people. Proof and evidence is not valid in their eyes.

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  #824743 24-May-2013 13:48
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I don't think you understand arguments.

Read the statement.

It says religion does not make people crazy.

It says crazy people get religion.

Let me put it this way. The android fan says

Apple does not make people who buy every model of new iPhone to become stupid.
Rather, people who buy every new model iPhones are stupid.

IHave nothing further to add.

NonprayingMantis
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  #824790 24-May-2013 14:46
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joker97: Also don't forget "extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence" (unknown)

I guess in making that statement you don't consider it extraordinary on the first place so be it if that's the case


I dont think it's particularly extraordinary to say that the kind of people who believe the praying will heal their sick son and so refuse modern medicine are crazy (crazy AND dangerous).  or that people who believe that if they martyr themselves for their god they will receive 40+ virgins in heaven are crazy (also dangerous), or people who believe joseph smith read the book of mormon from the inside of a hat from some gold plates are crazy, or that people who believe that a cosmic jewish zombie who was his own father needs you to eat his own flesh in order for him to forgive because a rib woman was persuaded by a talking snake to eat some fruit and that caused you to be sinful are crazy.


I mean, if you believe in one particular version of a god that generally means you disbelieve in all the other thousands of different versions of god or gods our there.
That means you probably think that all the other people who believe in the 'wrong' gods are crazy (they must be to believe in such an obviously false god).

You are an atheist about all those other gods.  So am I.  I just go one god further than you.

furthermore,  I know quite a few people who have 'found' religion (different religions).  once that happened,  they went crazy believing in all sorts of fanciful nonsense like prayer, miracles, heaven etc.




NonprayingMantis
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  #824791 24-May-2013 14:48
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joker97: I don't have to prove anything. The burden of proof lies on the person making a claim.

en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Philosophical_burden_of_proof

umm, nobody asked you to prove anything.  I asked you why you thought my statement was narrowminded.

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  #824797 24-May-2013 15:02
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NonprayingMantis:
joker97: Also don't forget "extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence" (unknown)

I guess in making that statement you don't consider it extraordinary on the first place so be it if that's the case


I dont think it's particularly extraordinary to say that the kind of people who believe the praying will heal their sick son and so refuse modern medicine are crazy (crazy AND dangerous).  or that people who believe that if they martyr themselves for their god they will receive 40+ virgins in heaven are crazy (also dangerous), or people who believe joseph smith read the book of mormon from the inside of a hat from some gold plates are crazy, or that people who believe that a cosmic jewish zombie who was his own father needs you to eat his own flesh in order for him to forgive because a rib woman was persuaded by a talking snake to eat some fruit and that caused you to be sinful are crazy.


I mean, if you believe in one particular version of a god that generally means you disbelieve in all the other thousands of different versions of god or gods our there.
That means you probably think that all the other people who believe in the 'wrong' gods are crazy (they must be to believe in such an obviously false god).

You are an atheist about all those other gods.  So am I.  I just go one god further than you.

furthermore,  I know quite a few people who have 'found' religion (different religions).  once that happened,  they went crazy believing in all sorts of fanciful nonsense like prayer, miracles, heaven etc.





Tolerance is a virtue, lack of it results in what is happening on a regular cycle. People are free to believe what they will without insult.

TheUngeek
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  #824800 24-May-2013 15:08
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joker97: I don't think you understand arguments.

Read the statement.

It says religion does not make people crazy.

It says crazy people get religion.

Let me put it this way. The android fan says

Apple does not make people who buy every model of new iPhone to become stupid.
Rather, people who buy every new model iPhones are stupid.

IHave nothing further to add.


I dont think you understood what I was talking about.

I was referring to the god or no god debate

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