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15016 posts

Uber Geek


  # 832818 8-Jun-2013 23:13
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JamjarsNZ: ct that I feel has not had enough exposure to criticism.

It does not seem right to me to feed our pets such a processed diet. And the more I have look into it, the more support I have found for a raw food diet. Maybe I put too much faith in the articles that support this, but I cannot find any evidence that convinces me otherwise. I can also see why vets would support a dry food diet when they can directly benefit from the sale of these products. It's like a doctor who will only prescribe drugs that they sell in a pharmacy that he owns.

If you can convince me otherwise, please do.


In my opinion, if someone is selling a type of product , they are going to recommend that sort of product, so they can sell more products. It is the same in most businesses that sell things. Doesn't mean that it is the best product. Any product can be sold with the right marketing. All I know if that feeding them on meat doesn't affect their life or health, based on the 20 year life of my last cat. But different breeds do have different requirements, so ask the breeder.

58 posts

Master Geek


  # 832837 8-Jun-2013 23:36
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farcus:


Your right, I do believe there is misinformation from pet food manufacturers and collusion with vets to push a dry food diet.  I hate to say it and I know it sounds ridiculous but this is one subject that I feel has not had enough exposure to criticism.

It does not seem right to me to feed our pets such a processed diet. And the more I have look into it, the more support I have found for a raw food diet. Maybe I put too much faith in the articles that support this, but I cannot find any evidence that convinces me otherwise. I can also see why vets would support a dry food diet when they can directly benefit from the sale of these products. It's like a doctor who will only prescribe drugs that they sell in a pharmacy that he owns.

If you can convince me otherwise, please do.


sorry if I tend to put more faith in the collective veterinary industry in NZ than a googled internet article.


So you would dismiss any opposing arguments simply because they are found in a google search? I dont blame you for trusting what your vet says, you would assume that they know what they are talking about.  Now you could blindly follow their advice, or you could question their motives and research alternatives. You might come to a different conclusion to me, but at least have a look at other independant advice.

 
 
 
 


1014 posts

Uber Geek


  # 832843 8-Jun-2013 23:53
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JamjarsNZ:

So you would dismiss any opposing arguments simply because they are found in a google search?. . . Now you could blindly follow their advice, or you could question their motives and research alternatives. You might come to a different conclusion to me, but at least have a look at other independant advice.


Now that's quite an assumption to make.

anyway - this is what the NZSPCA currently recommends


Feeding -
It is paramount that your cat is fed the correct diet, as this will determine its energy levels and its overall health and happiness. It is best to feed a premium quality biscuit as the main part of the diet, occasionally supplementing with some soft food as a treat. Biscuits clean the cat’s teeth as it crunches through them, and have a higher density in nutrients compared to soft foods, which contain 70 to 80 per cent water and are usually high in fat. As a main diet this would not adequately cover your cat’s nutritional needs. Provide a safe, familiar feeding location, and give each cat its own bowl.

Always provide fresh water for the cat to drink, preferably in different parts of the house for easy accessibility. Avoid giving milk as most cats and kittens are lactose intolerant and cannot digest milk, which will trigger mild diarrhoea.

Cats are carnivores, and cannot be fed dog food. Dogs are omnivores, being able to gain nutrients from animal as well as plant matter, and a great part of the calories in commercial dog food is derived from plant sources. Cats are unable to digest this kind of semi-vegetarian diet properly and will not thrive on it. Avoid human food as well, since this usually contains salt, spices or additives. These will be harmful for the cat’s body, which is not adapted to deal with these substances.  Human food may also be high in fat, and being over weight puts their health at risk.

Cats should not be fed bones. These can splinter and get stuck in their mouth or gut and, in the worst cases, necessitate a trip to your veterinarian. If you want to treat your cat to a piece of fish, make sure that all bones are removed and the fish is cooked.

15016 posts

Uber Geek


  # 832844 8-Jun-2013 23:56
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Don't vets also recommend regular vacinations and checks. But apart from the initial ones, I have never vacinated them, as they never go outside. Also expensive flea treatments, but I use a natural one and that stops them.

1892 posts

Uber Geek


  # 832857 9-Jun-2013 00:37
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My girlfriend works for the Auckland Emergency Clinic next to the Unitech campus in Mount Albert. Everyone there at both AEC and VSG recommend Hills.

Hills is a dry food diet. I don't personally know much about it, but it is supposed to be more balanced. It is the most expensive, but ends up much cheaper than the other stuff as you can feed them much less food while giving them more nutrients than what you would with cheap dry food.

A raw food diet is fine, but it needs to be very carefully balanced or you may end up doing more harm than good, causing deficiencies. This is why they swear by Hills. You can't throw raw meat from the supermarket in their bowl and expect good things. People that aren't food experts can chuck two small cups of Hills in to their cats food bowl and know they will be fine.





Sometimes what you don't get is a blessing in disguise!

15016 posts

Uber Geek


  # 832858 9-Jun-2013 00:51
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DravidDavid: My girlfriend works for the Auckland Emergency Clinic next to the Unitech campus in Mount Albert. Everyone there at both AEC and VSG recommend Hills.

Hills is a dry food diet. I don't personally know much about it, but it is supposed to be more balanced. It is the most expensive, but ends up much cheaper than the other stuff as you can feed them much less food while giving them more nutrients than what you would with cheap dry food.

A raw food diet is fine, but it needs to be very carefully balanced or you may end up doing more harm than good, causing deficiencies. This is why they swear by Hills. You can't throw raw meat from the supermarket in their bowl and expect good things. People that aren't food experts can chuck two small cups of Hills in to their cats food bowl and know they will be fine.


Has it been proven though?

1462 posts

Uber Geek


  # 832943 9-Jun-2013 11:03
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mattwnz: Don't vets also recommend regular vacinations and checks. But apart from the initial ones, I have never vacinated them, as they never go outside. Also expensive flea treatments, but I use a natural one and that stops them.


This post makes you seem like a terrible pet owner!

So what happens if a friend of yours comes over who has a pet thats a carrier for a disease his pet is immune too, starts petting your pet and infects it ?
What about it's teeth, do you clean them ?
Or if it does manage to get outside one day and the local moggy tells it off for being in it's patch and infects it with FIV (Feline Immunodeficiency Virus) ?
And it's sanity ?  How is that ?  Being cooped up indoors 24x7 must be a great life!



 
 
 
 




2798 posts

Uber Geek

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  # 832959 9-Jun-2013 11:36
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farcus:
JamjarsNZ:

So you would dismiss any opposing arguments simply because they are found in a google search?. . . Now you could blindly follow their advice, or you could question their motives and research alternatives. You might come to a different conclusion to me, but at least have a look at other independant advice.


Now that's quite an assumption to make.

anyway - this is what the NZSPCA currently recommends


Feeding -
It is paramount that your cat is fed the correct diet, as this will determine its energy levels and its overall health and happiness. It is best to feed a premium quality biscuit as the main part of the diet, occasionally supplementing with some soft food as a treat. Biscuits clean the cat’s teeth as it crunches through them, and have a higher density in nutrients compared to soft foods, which contain 70 to 80 per cent water and are usually high in fat. As a main diet this would not adequately cover your cat’s nutritional needs. Provide a safe, familiar feeding location, and give each cat its own bowl.

Always provide fresh water for the cat to drink, preferably in different parts of the house for easy accessibility. Avoid giving milk as most cats and kittens are lactose intolerant and cannot digest milk, which will trigger mild diarrhoea.

Cats are carnivores, and cannot be fed dog food. Dogs are omnivores, being able to gain nutrients from animal as well as plant matter, and a great part of the calories in commercial dog food is derived from plant sources. Cats are unable to digest this kind of semi-vegetarian diet properly and will not thrive on it. Avoid human food as well, since this usually contains salt, spices or additives. These will be harmful for the cat’s body, which is not adapted to deal with these substances.  Human food may also be high in fat, and being over weight puts their health at risk.

Cats should not be fed bones. These can splinter and get stuck in their mouth or gut and, in the worst cases, necessitate a trip to your veterinarian. If you want to treat your cat to a piece of fish, make sure that all bones are removed and the fish is cooked.


That actually sounds contradictory since most dried cat foods contain plant matter. There are a few grain free dried foods like Acana around but the majority definitely contain plant matter. 




Solution Architect @Intergen
All comments are my own opinion, and not that of my employer unless explicitly stated.


1 post

Wannabe Geek


# 832964 9-Jun-2013 11:59
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We feed our girls purina one biscuit/pellets and jimbos steak and kidney or rabbit and venison or lamb,or max which is raw meat as well,they come in plastic punnets and our cats run and sit down when they know its being served for them.We also give them fish in the little tins but we try to steer away from them-they also eat wild mice and the occasional gecko and if they could catch one a bird.They sleep soundly after the raw meat and have heaps of energy,the biscuits are always there for them to help themselves,theyre not overweight so i guess they know when theyve had enough

15016 posts

Uber Geek


  # 832974 9-Jun-2013 12:31
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Mark:
mattwnz: Don't vets also recommend regular vacinations and checks. But apart from the initial ones, I have never vacinated them, as they never go outside. Also expensive flea treatments, but I use a natural one and that stops them.


This post makes you seem like a terrible pet owner!

So what happens if a friend of yours comes over who has a pet thats a carrier for a disease his pet is immune too, starts petting your pet and infects it ?
What about it's teeth, do you clean them ?
Or if it does manage to get outside one day and the local moggy tells it off for being in it's patch and infects it with FIV (Feline Immunodeficiency Virus) ?
And it's sanity ?  How is that ?  Being cooped up indoors 24x7 must be a great life!




I don't think you know what you are taking about as everyone's situation is different so you shouldn't judge . Many people don't immunise their children either, so do you call them irresponsible? And children are in social contact with one another. The cats never socialise with any other cats and the other risks are minimal.

Live beside a major road so them going outside is not an option and also live in a huge house so lots of room to run in. Infact letting them outside would be irresponsible. Also have lots of native birds life and they do catch birds when we have let them out with supervision. Yes we do clean their teeth. Obviously we would immunise if we were putting them into a cattery but we have owned cays for over 30 years with no health problems and it is usually only strays that have these diseases and there aren't any in my area. Our vet also agreed.
The main reason is we had a cat that was very ill after being immunised and nearly didn't make it.

1014 posts

Uber Geek


  # 833049 9-Jun-2013 15:17
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mattwnz:. . .Many people don't immunise their children either, so do you call them irresponsible? . . .


It's getting off topic, but yes . . . I'd call parents who don't get their children immunised irresponsible, as would most of the medical profession.

oh . . . and I wouldn't say "many" parents don't immunise their children - it is much more like a very small misinformed minority.

771 posts

Ultimate Geek


  # 833060 9-Jun-2013 15:46
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I've had cats for 35 years.
It makes no difference to their teeth what you feed them, some cats get teeth problems, some don't.

Jellymeat eating cat got it. Wild food cat did too.
Others didn't.

However, I feed mine Jimbos - not the supermarket stuff - it's too expensive.
I buy it direct from Jimbos - mostly Horse, a bit of kidney mixed in, they love it.

Well except one cat (now deceased of old age) but she was weird for a cat, wouldn't eat anything raw at all.


They have access to cat biscuits, occasionally they get cat food, but usually they look at that in disgust.
The cat biscuits is for any nutrients they may lack, they do nibble at it.

They will not eat any other cat biscuits other than Friskies. So much for the "healthy" variety.
One is outdoors almost all year, she hunts and catches a lot of her food. The vet comments how fit, muscular and healthy she is, she is now 11 years old. Put on a wee bit of weight now - she used to be rake thin, but hey she's getting older now...

She's still thinner than her sister. None are fat though.

Lately they have discovered Temptations treats, these are apparently brilliant  - even outdoor cat eats a few.....nothing in them other than what's in cat biscuits that I can tell, but they sure do work - like the ad where the cat goes through the wall...


One thing I have found, if you have a young kitten - they learn what to eat from what their mothers bring them - so what you feed them then is what they will grow up eating - and if you don't give variety then, you get a "picky" cat later.



15016 posts

Uber Geek


  # 833811 10-Jun-2013 22:47
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pctek: 

Lately they have discovered Temptations treats, these are apparently brilliant  - even outdoor cat eats a few.....nothing in them other than what's in cat biscuits that I can tell, but they sure do work - like the ad where the cat goes through the wall...


One thing I have found, if you have a young kitten - they learn what to eat from what their mothers bring them - so what you feed them then is what they will grow up eating - and if you don't give variety then, you get a "picky" cat later.




I know of a cat that will only eat biscuits, and never meat after be brought up on them. Although it has kidney problems.

My cats discovered those temptations as we got a whole lot of free small packs and they opened all the packs and ate most of them. They seem very popular. Have to lock the fridge and doors to stop them breaking in as they can open doors and draws.

1365 posts

Uber Geek


  # 834111 11-Jun-2013 12:37
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My two get a half sachet of meat mixed with an equal amount of biscuits (so they don't eat around the biscuits) in the morning with a small bowl of whiskers cat milk. At night they just get half a sachet of meat, although they are at the age now where I have started being able to give them some adult food so I sometimes give them a little more. I also leave a bowl of biscuits and some water down all of the time.

Usually I try and vary the types of biscuits and meat that they use; my preference is for IAMS biscuits and whiskers meat but I suspect any of the quality biscuits will be good enough. I make sure they try different types of food and if they don't eat it, I don't make a fuss, they just get it mixed in with the next meal (although I give fresh food every morning if that is the case).

It is my understanding that they need a diet of at least 34% protein, and that is really what the biscuits are for, the meat is usually only around 8% but it forms part of a good balanced diet and provides some moisture as well.


As for vaccinations, they have had their flu shots, feline leukaemia, feline aids and are about to just get de-sexed and micro-chipped.




Software Engineer

 


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4849 posts

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  # 834171 11-Jun-2013 13:37
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The vet we take our cats to is a specialist cat vet and they don't see any other animals. All the vets there have advanced feline training in addition to their vet degree.

We've seen a couple of different vets at the clinic, and while they do sell a range of food there their advice had always been to just feed them whatever they are happiest eating, but keep it in moderation. They advised against some of the budget supermarket brands because they are more 'junk food', but basically said keep a mix of wet and dry and just make sure they are eating the right amount.

They did however advise against an all dry diet, as they are often very carby and it makes the cats fat. Apparently even the premium 'diet' biscuits that they put many overweight cats on just make them fatter.

Our cats get a mix of Royal Canin dry food, a range of wet food and the occasional raw meat.




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