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  Reply # 838853 18-Jun-2013 19:02
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sxz: My view (along with many of yours) is that Commercal takes way more fish than Recreational.

I'm interested - has anyone comissioned a report to see what it would cost to:
a) Ban all commercial fishing
b) Pay all commercial fishermen/woman their usual wages for a period while helping them retrain.
c) retain all recreational fishing, including charter boats where you have your own individual limit (no nets allowed).

Benefits to this:
1) We no longer have to pay the MASSIVE subsidies on diesel for fisherman
2) THere will be fish left in NZ in 50 years time (can't say much about the rest of the world)
3) Benefits for tourism would be huge as stocks recover we could be a RECREATIONAL fishing capital of the world (like an African safari park - look at how much they charge)

My understanding is that the way things are going now many stocks will be depleted in 20 years anyway so the commercial fishermen/women might as well retrain now.

NZ is unique in that our territorial watters are MASSIVE, and our neighbours are far away.  We are uniquely positioned to be able to ban all commercial fishing, thus preserving stock for the future.  If you want fish, you would then have to go get it yourself recreationally, or pay to go on a charter where you can still get your recreational limit.  We can not continue treating fish as a "right" - there simply isnt enough to go around.

That is all.



I see a Tui Billboard with your name on it. 

sxz

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  Reply # 838857 18-Jun-2013 19:12
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networkn:
sxz: My view (along with many of yours) is that Commercal takes way more fish than Recreational.

I'm interested - has anyone comissioned a report to see what it would cost to:
a) Ban all commercial fishing
b) Pay all commercial fishermen/woman their usual wages for a period while helping them retrain.
c) retain all recreational fishing, including charter boats where you have your own individual limit (no nets allowed).

Benefits to this:
1) We no longer have to pay the MASSIVE subsidies on diesel for fisherman
2) THere will be fish left in NZ in 50 years time (can't say much about the rest of the world)
3) Benefits for tourism would be huge as stocks recover we could be a RECREATIONAL fishing capital of the world (like an African safari park - look at how much they charge)

My understanding is that the way things are going now many stocks will be depleted in 20 years anyway so the commercial fishermen/women might as well retrain now.

NZ is unique in that our territorial watters are MASSIVE, and our neighbours are far away.  We are uniquely positioned to be able to ban all commercial fishing, thus preserving stock for the future.  If you want fish, you would then have to go get it yourself recreationally, or pay to go on a charter where you can still get your recreational limit.  We can not continue treating fish as a "right" - there simply isnt enough to go around.

That is all.



I see a Tui Billboard with your name on it. 


Sadly, you're probably right.

It's not unrealistic though.  If you've ever been diving at Leigh or the Poor Knights you'll see what a massive difference local marine reserves make.  Massive snapper just cruising right off the beach, it is literally amazing.   Imagine if the whole country was like that!  Recreational fishing would be amazing.

The worst thing it that everyone knows about the 'tragedy of the commons' and no one is stepping up to do something about it (in relation to fishing anyway).

 
 
 
 


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  Reply # 838906 18-Jun-2013 20:14
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sxz:
networkn:
sxz: My view (along with many of yours) is that Commercal takes way more fish than Recreational.

I'm interested - has anyone comissioned a report to see what it would cost to:
a) Ban all commercial fishing
b) Pay all commercial fishermen/woman their usual wages for a period while helping them retrain.
c) retain all recreational fishing, including charter boats where you have your own individual limit (no nets allowed).

Benefits to this:
1) We no longer have to pay the MASSIVE subsidies on diesel for fisherman
2) THere will be fish left in NZ in 50 years time (can't say much about the rest of the world)
3) Benefits for tourism would be huge as stocks recover we could be a RECREATIONAL fishing capital of the world (like an African safari park - look at how much they charge)

My understanding is that the way things are going now many stocks will be depleted in 20 years anyway so the commercial fishermen/women might as well retrain now.

NZ is unique in that our territorial watters are MASSIVE, and our neighbours are far away.  We are uniquely positioned to be able to ban all commercial fishing, thus preserving stock for the future.  If you want fish, you would then have to go get it yourself recreationally, or pay to go on a charter where you can still get your recreational limit.  We can not continue treating fish as a "right" - there simply isnt enough to go around.

That is all.



I see a Tui Billboard with your name on it. 


Sadly, you're probably right.

It's not unrealistic though.  If you've ever been diving at Leigh or the Poor Knights you'll see what a massive difference local marine reserves make.  Massive snapper just cruising right off the beach, it is literally amazing.   Imagine if the whole country was like that!  Recreational fishing would be amazing.

The worst thing it that everyone knows about the 'tragedy of the commons' and no one is stepping up to do something about it (in relation to fishing anyway).


I think you are confusing my comment as me agreeing with you which I don't. Doing away with Commercial fishing is a very odd idea indeed. How many people in NZ would have fish if they required it themselves. Do you imagine the same thing should happen with Butcheries and vegetable shops?

sxz

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  Reply # 838937 18-Jun-2013 21:24
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Nope - I'm not confused at all.  I know you don't (can't?) understand where I am coming from - and that's what I think is sad.

I think it's sad that people recognize that for years we have been overfishing and that it is not sustainable.  We know this.  But we are too used to having a steady supply at the fish and chip shop - who cares if we are taking them quicker than they are growing? right?  Who cares that there will probably be no fishing stocks left in 50 years?

Have a quick read through this: http://www.bbc.com/future/story/20120920-are-we-running-out-of-fish

and this:

http://www.fao.org/newsroom/common/ecg/1000505/en/stocks.pdf

The UN Food and Agriculture Organization reports that 25% (i.e. 1 in 4) fishing stocks are overexploited or are depleted.  It's not rocket science.  Catch more fish than are growing, sooner or later you have no fish. 

We are hardly going to run out of carrots or cows if we eat to many of them.  Farmers manage their stocks so they don't run out (or they run out of business).  Can't easily do that with fishing, because there are no fences.  Again, see: tragedy of the commons. 

I think we should have the debate.  You can't commercially catch Trout, because it's not sustainable.  It's going to come to a head sooner or later, I simply think we should think about whether we can do anything about sooner rather than later before it gets too far gone.   Oh wait, maybe it's already too far gone.

At the breaking point





TL;DR  Use your brain.  Just because we do something doesn't mean it's right.  The more fish you catch, the less left to bread, and eventually we run out.



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  Reply # 838941 18-Jun-2013 21:30
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The stakes here are big.

Everyone should agree to a reduction if thats what sustainability requires - else, perhaps not in our lifetime, but eventually there will be none left.


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  Reply # 838985 18-Jun-2013 22:36
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Karlosnz: We the rec fisherman have already taken cuts to our limit 15 down to 10 then 10 down to 9
A 40% cut in our quota
What have the commericial guys done to help the fishery?
Nothing they ended up taking our cuts in quota and have carried on their merry way.

Its time the commericial guys took a cut in quota not us.


9 is still a lot for recreational, 15 was crazy, in my opinion.  I wonder how much gets wasted when it cant be given away. Some people will fill their bag because they can, not because they need them.  5 fish of 30cm or bigger is more than enough to feed my family, and the grandparents, for a couple of days.  Fish held on to much longer than that, or frozen, isn't anywhere as nice.

At least we don't have to pay for a license here (yet)!




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  Reply # 838988 18-Jun-2013 22:39
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sxz: 
It's not unrealistic though.  If you've ever been diving at Leigh or the Poor Knights you'll see what a massive difference local marine reserves make.  Massive snapper just cruising right off the beach, it is literally amazing.   Imagine if the whole country was like that!  Recreational fishing would be amazing.


lol. actually residential fishing would be illegal in that scenario ;)

(unless you're talking about diving *outside* the marine reserve, which isn't quite as impressive)




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