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Topic # 123436 7-Jul-2013 20:18
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I've been looking into bitcoin mining over the last couple of days to run on my new computer.

From what I've worked out with my set up I can get around 600 Mhash/s (Dual overclocked TITANS + overclocked 4770K CPU) which is ok but this only works out at 0.01 BTC/day ish or about $1/day. And I am sure it wouid use more than $1/day in power to run this beast.

Yes I know Nvidia mining compared to  AMD mining is not so fast (yet) but still quite slow but using high end AMDs you might get maybe $4/day per high end GPU.

(The TITAN will outdo any single GPU out there graphics wise  .. I didn't buy the TITANS for bitcoin)

Alternatives to GPUs is ASIC but a $300 USB device will only pay for itself after a year but yes it would use a lot less power.

So what are other people using in NZ for bit coin mining? Is it worth it?



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  Reply # 850522 7-Jul-2013 20:25
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an ASIC will pay for itself a lot faster.  You can get a 5Ghash/s ASIC for about $300; that is almost 10x faster than your proposed GPU based rig (and uses a fraction of the power)



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  Reply # 850527 7-Jul-2013 20:36
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Yes there is:

https://products.butterflylabs.com/5-gh-s-bitcoin-miner.html but it doesn't seem to be available "now" but a 2 month wait.. thats $274 US + $88 US shipping.. coverted to NZD + Duty/GST etc over $500 NZD.

$10/day.. 2 months to pay itself off? and then all profit? (or have I worked it out wrong?)

Or is there something cheaper?

There is http://www.trademe.co.nz/computers/peripherals/other/auction-612116420.htm but at 333 MHash/s it will take over a year to just pay for itself the hardware.





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  Reply # 850570 7-Jul-2013 23:13
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^^He listed them as all sold on GP. Not the person you want to buy from anyway, he was bidding up his own listings despite putting them $1 RES lol. No ethics for most of the people in the bitcoin world.

LennonNZ: I've been looking into bitcoin mining over the last couple of days to run on my new computer.

From what I've worked out with my set up I can get around 600 Mhash/s (Dual overclocked TITANS + overclocked 4770K CPU) which is ok but this only works out at 0.01 BTC/day ish or about $1/day. And I am sure it wouid use more than $1/day in power to run this beast.

Yes I know Nvidia mining compared to AMD mining is not so fast (yet) but still quite slow but using high end AMDs you might get maybe $4/day per high end GPU.

(The TITAN will outdo any single GPU out there graphics wise .. I didn't buy the TITANS for bitcoin)

Alternatives to GPUs is ASIC but a $300 USB device will only pay for itself after a year but yes it would use a lot less power.

So what are other people using in NZ for bit coin mining? Is it worth it?




You really need to read up on how bitcoin mining works and the dramatic difficulty climbs, none of these units will ever recover their original cost(after power expenses are paid) and with ASIC's estimated to be 50%+ of the overall networks hashing power right now it's not cost effective in NZ for GPU mining.

Also look at the likes of BFL being about a year late on delivery of their ASIC devices, Avalon ASICS arriving with large hours already on them (mining for profit when difficulty was lower before then sending to their customers lol...). It's a wildwest of cowboys out there who may/may not ever deliver on what they say they will sell. BFL's miners power consumption is something like 4x their estimate a year ago and the buyers will likely never recover their cost's with other ASIC's already in the market.

The only winners in BTC mining right now are the ASIC producers who can sell to the greedy trying to make a quick buck or the GPU miners with no power costs at all. LTC or other alt coins would be a better option as there's better margins for that.


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  Reply # 850598 8-Jul-2013 07:23
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loceff13: ^^He listed them as all sold on GP. Not the person you want to buy from anyway, he was bidding up his own listings despite putting them $1 RES lol. No ethics for most of the people in the bitcoin world.


Tht's why he was so confrontational when I commented that those things wouldn't pay for themselves. Talk about talking up his own business.





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  Reply # 850600 8-Jul-2013 07:29
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freitasm:
loceff13: ^^He listed them as all sold on GP. Not the person you want to buy from anyway, he was bidding up his own listings despite putting them $1 RES lol. No ethics for most of the people in the bitcoin world.


Tht's why he was so confrontational when I commented that those things wouldn't pay for themselves. Talk about talking up his own business.



Yet he is marked as a Trusted Member, guess that status can't be trusted...




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  Reply # 850611 8-Jul-2013 07:38
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That was marked because he attended a pizza event. We don't do background checks to assign Trusted status. Instead it means we met the user in person and the user stands in this community.

To be fair what we have here is an allegation but I haven't seem evidence of this shill bid in the auction after looking at it now.




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  Reply # 850613 8-Jul-2013 07:41
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All good points.

*wanders back into his corner*




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  Reply # 850619 8-Jul-2013 08:19
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freitasm: That was marked because he attended a pizza event. We don't do background checks to assign Trusted status. Instead it means we met the user in person and the user stands in this community.

To be fair what we have here is an allegation but I haven't seem evidence of this shill bid in the auction after looking at it now.


He has a account snappie2 which he placed shill bids on to drive it over $300, trademe disabled it and removed said bids but it ultimately sold for higher anyway. Pretty standard policy for them :).

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  Reply # 851479 9-Jul-2013 12:23
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No ethics for most of the people in the bitcoin world.


thats a pretty broad generalisation, how do you come to that conclusion? 

none of these units will ever recover their original cost


if the hardware is purchased in fiat, i dont understand how you can make this statement, unless you know what price BTC will be next week / month / year


OP dont bother with BFL, there are thousands of people waiting for hardware ordered and paid for last year


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  Reply # 852001 9-Jul-2013 21:33
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greenbone:
No ethics for most of the people in the bitcoin world.


thats a pretty broad generalisation, how do you come to that conclusion? 

none of these units will ever recover their original cost


if the hardware is purchased in fiat, i dont understand how you can make this statement, unless you know what price BTC will be next week / month / year


Have you followed most bitcoin projects/sites etc? Look at the crap they allow in the most popular forums (bitcointalk) and the really shady stuff their community members and leaders do.

As for recovering costs, what makes you think that difficulty wouldn't climb even more dramatically if value went up aswell? Unless all the ASIC providers ran out of stock and the hashrate sat stagnant for many months which is extremely unlikely.

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  Reply # 853193 10-Jul-2013 10:56
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Have you followed most bitcoin projects/sites etc? Look at the crap they allow in the most popular forums (bitcointalk) and the really shady stuff their community members and leaders do.


ok so now explain how you go from anecdotal evidence on bitcointalk, to concluding that the majority of people involved with bitcoin are unethical? and how an ecosystem with a 1B market cap and millions of transactions a day has not fallen over when only the minority of users have ethical intentions? 


As for recovering costs, what makes you think that difficulty wouldn't climb even more dramatically if value went up aswell? Unless all the ASIC providers ran out of stock and the hashrate sat stagnant for many months which is extremely unlikely.


your statement was "none of these units will ever recover their original cost" not "none of these units will continue to be profitable".

as long as the unit is capable of mining any fraction of bitcoin, and as long as the fiat price of bitcoin is an unknown variable, then your statement is wrong, is it not?

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  Reply # 853260 10-Jul-2013 12:29
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It's my personal opinion, after following it since mar2011. Obviously I can't back it up with hard facts any better than you could deny it with hard facts. I'll add IMO if you really want.

greenbone:

your statement was "none of these units will ever recover their original cost" not "none of these units will continue to be profitable".

as long as the unit is capable of mining any fraction of bitcoin, and as long as the fiat price of bitcoin is an unknown variable, then your statement is wrong, is it not?


I stand by my statement, I don't believe any of the ASIC providers mass selling to the public customers right now will recover their original cost(after power expenses are paid) with the difficulty rate jumps. Especially for a NZ user like OP paying significantly higher power rates. If they do, that's going to be pretty huge.

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  Reply # 853289 10-Jul-2013 13:07
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It's my personal opinion, after following it since mar2011. Obviously I can't back it up with hard facts any better than you could deny it with hard facts. I'll add IMO if you really want.


well the huge uptake, market cap, vc investment and overall price growth are hard facts arent they? how does that occur in an ecosystem where the majority involved are unethical?


I stand by my statement, I don't believe any of the ASIC providers mass selling to the public customers right now will recover their original cost(after power expenses are paid) with the difficulty rate jumps. Especially for a NZ user like OP paying significantly higher power rates. If they do, that's going to be pretty huge.


it doesnt really matter what you believe; as long as the fiat value of BTC remains speculative, your statement will always be wrong. theres no personal opinion, grey area, educated guess or "i dont believe" about it




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  Reply # 867154 27-Jul-2013 18:53
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greenbone:

it doesnt really matter what you believe; as long as the fiat value of BTC remains speculative, your statement will always be wrong. theres no personal opinion, grey area, educated guess or "i dont believe" about it



That is not correct. Regardless of the future value of the Bitcoin in fiat currency, buying an ASIC miner at today's prices, with the current rate of difficulty increase will always lose you money against simply transferring an equivalent sum of money into Bitcoins and just holding it. That is a guarantee. We know that the current rate of difficulty increase will be maintained or will increase because we have a good picture of the rate at which new ASICs will be shipped by the ASIC manufacturers who have a track record of delivery. Add in the potential contribution of BFL and others who may well ship eventually and it gets worse.

This is true for any ASIC mining device currently on the market.

Buying any ASIC mining device is an irrational act. Even if you are convinced that the future value of Bitcoins will be higher, it is still an irrational act as you would simply make more money by transfering funds into Bitcoins and holding them.

The only people making money out of Bitcoin ASICs are the manufacturers and people who are able to buy ASIC devices and resell them at a profit.


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