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  Reply # 851112 8-Jul-2013 18:31
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Klipspringer:
Klipspringer:
freitasm: He launched a Facebook page. Long way from registering a party.


With 4395 likes.




11417 


this post and it's content speaks volumes




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  Reply # 851124 8-Jul-2013 18:44
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If you haven't already, read the Listener article about this: http://www.listener.co.nz/commentary/the-internaut/pakeha-party-launched-a-new-voice-for-non-racism/

And if anyone should doubt that the Pakeha Party is not racist, just look at their name: it’s in Maori, as they point out. Take that.

Moreover, the non-racism is made abundantly clear in the slogan atop the non-racist Facebook page, which displays disdain for colonialism by flipping the bird at the English language:
“If the Maori get it, we want it to!” Yeah! But want it to what? The missing word, almost certainly, is “thrive”.



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  Reply # 851127 8-Jul-2013 18:50
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ajobbins:

Creating equity on a citizen by citizen basis is unrealistic - therefore group based policy is the best way of achieving equity amount a disadvantaged group. Will there be exceptions amount groups who will get more benefit than needed/intended? Sure, but in the overall scheme of things, it's the most efficient way to achieving equity.


The problem with this way of thinking is that you are assuming that its just one group of people that is disadvantaged.

Problem is its not. Inequality in NZ is not limited to Maori only. The current policies however benefit Maori ONLY. The Mana Party policy for Maori first-time home buyers will benefit Maori only. Stuff everybody else that can't afford a house. 

These kind of policies are just another form of so called "positive discrimination". They will never create equity. They will always benefit some people from the same group more than others. Just look at who benefits from land claims. 

The other problem is that "positive discrimination" discriminates against the disadvantaged in the so called "advantaged" groups. 

Will positive discrimination ever lead to 100% equality? I think we all know the answer to that. There are better ways at dealing with inequality than grouping people by race. We fooling ourselves if we think this is the answer to 100% equality.

I dont agree with this facebook group just as much as I don't agree with the Mana Maori home buyers policy. 

At the end of the day, this facebook group is raising awareness. Hopefully the Maori, Mana and other race related parties will soon become a thing of the past. I don't see a need for them in future NZ.

There's no such thing as 'positive' discrimination. There is discrimination.



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  Reply # 851128 8-Jul-2013 19:03
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freitasm: Facebook "Likes" and nothing... For me are the same. Seriously, some people click "Like" and won't even remember what they had for breakfast that day. And won't remember they "liked" something the next week.



I agree
It is however very interesting seeing how fast this group is growing.

Now at 17980. An extra 5000 in 30minutes

Awesome
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  Reply # 851132 8-Jul-2013 19:07
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Klipspringer: The problem with this way of thinking is that you are assuming that its just one group of people that is disadvantaged.


I'm not referring to any policy specifically so therefore there is no assumption only one group is disadvantaged.

Problem is its not. Inequality in NZ is not limited to Maori only. The current policies however benefit Maori ONLY. The Mana Party policy for Maori first-time home buyers will benefit Maori only. Stuff everybody else that can't afford a house. 


Not saying I agree with the Mana policy, but certainly don't agree that a "Pakeha Party" is an appropriate balance.

These kind of policies are just another form of so called "positive discrimination". They will never create equity. They will always benefit some people from the same group more than others. Just look at who benefits from land claims. 


Sure, but they are a step in the direction of equality. And arguably the most efficient overall method of doing so.

The other problem is that "positive discrimination" discriminates against the disadvantaged in the so called "advantaged" groups. 


It's not a perfect solution, but on balance, it's often the best net benefit approach. Come up with a better one?

Will positive discrimination ever lead to 100% equality? I think we all know the answer to that. There are better ways at dealing with inequality than grouping people by race. We fooling ourselves if we think this is the answer to 100% equality.


Sadly not, but keen to hear you better ways for dealing with it.

I dont agree with this facebook group just as much as I don't agree with the Mana Maori home buyers policy. 


OK

At the end of the day, this facebook group is raising awareness. Hopefully the Maori, Mana and other race related parties will soon become a thing of the past. I don't see a need for them in future NZ.


I don't agree with using racism to raise awareness.

There's no such thing as 'positive' discrimination. There is discrimination.


Sure there is, For example, we (positively) discriminate against 6 year olds getting drivers licences.




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  Reply # 851134 8-Jul-2013 19:08
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It'd be interesting to see snapshots of their likes before and after the Seven Sharp (more like Seven Dull) program.

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  Reply # 851136 8-Jul-2013 19:10
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KiwiNZ:
Klipspringer:
Klipspringer:
freitasm: He launched a Facebook page. Long way from registering a party.


With 4395 likes.




11417 


this post and it's content speaks volumes

yes it does and may signify the frustration others have over some of the rubbish that we get from the noisy minority.

Then again it could mean  nothing at all




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  Reply # 851137 8-Jul-2013 19:12
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Klipspringer:
ajobbins:

Creating equity on a citizen by citizen basis is unrealistic - therefore group based policy is the best way of achieving equity amount a disadvantaged group. Will there be exceptions amount groups who will get more benefit than needed/intended? Sure, but in the overall scheme of things, it's the most efficient way to achieving equity.


The problem with this way of thinking is that you are assuming that its just one group of people that is disadvantaged.

Problem is its not. Inequality in NZ is not limited to Maori only. The current policies however benefit Maori ONLY. The Mana Party policy for Maori first-time home buyers will benefit Maori only. Stuff everybody else that can't afford a house. 


The Mana Party policy is about Maori only because their mandate is for Maori only. Their policy will never become reality anyway so I don't understand the fuss. In order for it to happen Labour would have to win the next election, Labour would have to rely on the Mana Party for support, Labour would have to find the funding, and-more importantly-Labour would have to be willing to pass legislation that favours one group of New Zealanders while excluding others. It won't happen. 

However, if the policy causes a government rethink on funding first home buyers, including all those who do not have access to traditional bank-based mortgages, then its a good thing. 

Before people get all bitter and twisted its worth considering whether any pie-in-the-sky scheme has a chance of coming to fruition. 




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  Reply # 851138 8-Jul-2013 19:13
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ajobbins: 

Not saying I agree with the Mana policy, but certainly don't agree that a "Pakeha Party" is an appropriate balance.


Is the Mana policy racist?



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  Reply # 851140 8-Jul-2013 19:17
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Klipspringer:
ajobbins: 

Not saying I agree with the Mana policy, but certainly don't agree that a "Pakeha Party" is an appropriate balance.


Is the Mana policy racist?


The Mana Party is as racist as the Catholic church is discriminatory because it looks after Catholics, or the <insert name here> communities look after community members. Looking out for the interests of one group of people does not equate to treading on the rights of other groups. None of their policies can come into being without the support of the party in government anyway. 



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  Reply # 851142 8-Jul-2013 19:18
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Elpie: 
The Mana Party policy is about Maori only because their mandate is for Maori only. 


hmmmmm. I dont get it.
Maori party, Pakeha party. Whats all the fuss about? 

Whats wrong with having a Pakeha Party? With a mandate for Pakeha?

Come on people. To an outsider. Somebody that is not from NZ. This is ridiculous. Its one sided to suggest the one is racist but not the other. All based on skin colour?

I thought New Zealand is suppose to be moving forward (same rights for all)? I have been told we lead the world in this regard! Seems I'm wrong.

PS: Marori = a race.
Pakeha = can be anyone from outside NZ including myself. (Anybody)

Whats wrong with representing people from outside NZ? Pakeha is not about skin colour. Maori and Mana parties are.

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  Reply # 851144 8-Jul-2013 19:20
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Elpie:
Klipspringer:
ajobbins: 

Not saying I agree with the Mana policy, but certainly don't agree that a "Pakeha Party" is an appropriate balance.


Is the Mana policy racist?


The Mana Party is as racist as the Catholic church is discriminatory because it looks after Catholics, or the <insert name here> communities look after community members. Looking out for the interests of one group of people does not equate to treading on the rights of other groups. None of their policies can come into being without the support of the party in government anyway. 


so the answer is, yes they are racist policies whichever way you dress it up. What irks more is the way thgier party throws out the racist card whenever it suits.

Having said that i don't think 2 wrongs make a right but demonstrates how much they get away with thier racism whilst non Maori's don't




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  Reply # 851148 8-Jul-2013 19:27
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Klipspringer:
freitasm: Facebook "Likes" and nothing... For me are the same. Seriously, some people click "Like" and won't even remember what they had for breakfast that day. And won't remember they "liked" something the next week.



I agree
It is however very interesting seeing how fast this group is growing.

Now at 17980. An extra 5000 in 30minutes


Sounds like they'd at least have more members than United Future. It must be true, read it on the Internet.


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  Reply # 851162 8-Jul-2013 19:29
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It is being organised by a troll and appealing to the lowest common denominator.




Mike
Retired IT Manager. 
The views stated in my posts are my personal views and not that of any other organisation.

 

 Mac user, Windows curser, Chrome OS desired.

 

The great divide is the lies from both sides.

 

 


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  Reply # 851173 8-Jul-2013 19:35
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KiwiNZ: It is being organised by a troll and appealing to the lowest common denominator.


are you referring to the Mana party here  Wink




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