New Benefit Changes

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#856247 16-Jul-2013 09:00

dickytim:
Her comments were designed to shock, and were a desperate reaction to wanting to remain on the benefit as it is, in her words "too hard" to do anything else, why are you not disgusted by this? Why are you not pissed off that you pay higher taxes to fund people like this?

I have lived thru difficult time, and never had anything growing up, I have zero understanding or tolerance for people who don't do anything to better themselves? Would these people be willing to clean other peoples sh!t? I have and did as it meant I could stay off the benefit.

Given the amounts involved, I am more pissed off about the amount of corporate welfare, tax avoidance and underpunished white collar crime than I am about the relatively tiny amounts of tax money that goes to welfare abuse. Hell, move the pension age up 3 years, and there's way more tax money saved - even reducing the pension for those still in work or means-testing it would save tons.

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#856250 16-Jul-2013 09:05

dickytim:
sir1963:
dickytim:
sir1963:
dickytim: Wow, when did living on the benefit full time and not being willing to work become a right?

If I had my way they would get their food brought for them, their electricity and landline with local calls paid for and no cash at all.

There is a need for welfare, and genuine people who can't work for physical reasons but it should not be a lifestyle.

The comment in the article that sticks in my head is "that's hard." Life is hard, I hate my job, it is very stressful and difficult!

The comments about New Zealanders having to jump thru hoops to get the benefit, damn this is how it should be! It should not be an easy answer.

Before anyone asks, yes I have been on the benefit, in Australia and it was due to my own laziness.

I have also been a very low paying jobs doing cleaning and working fast food for minimum wage in order to get myself a leg up.

Tell me, are you any good at Chemistry, physics, perhaps golf, play the piano, can you fly a plane ?

Why is it that we have compassion for the blind, the deaf, the paralysed, is it because we can pretend to know what its like by closing our eyes etc ?
Why is it that we have no compassion for those who are unable to manage their lives ?
EVERY skill has a grade.
Heck I work with people with PhDs, and see how incompetent they are with computers and technology, yet they are doing math etc,etc that I can not even begin to understand, some speak 3 or more languages.

Its easy to brush off the things you fail at as being "just a game" or "unimportant", yet at life compared to Donald Trump, Bob Jones, and millions of others world wide, you are not up there, you may well be even a bit below average, but to have an average someone MUST be below you, and these people have mental or other emotional illnesses that prevent them from managing their lives properly.

your comment are irrelevant to this thread and my comments.

The comments above are referring to those that don't want to work, the lady in the article stated that she couldn't face people, then said she would do a highly interactive job instead, she contradicted herself.

As to my mediocrity, I am the only one that pays for that, not the tax payer, there is a huge difference there, would you not agree?

Her comments were sarcasm. thrown out in frustration and anger, and guess what, EVERYONE does that!
Your mediocrity and your perspective of it shows you have zero understanding of those with more difficulties than you do.

Her comments were designed to shock, and were a desperate reaction to wanting to remain on the benefit as it is, in her words "too hard" to do anything else, why are you not disgusted by this? Why are you not pissed off that you pay higher taxes to fund people like this?

I have lived thru difficult time, and never had anything growing up, I have zero understanding or tolerance for people who don't do anything to better themselves? Would these people be willing to clean other peoples sh!t? I have and did as it meant I could stay off the benefit.

One cannot determine the facts of this persons life by an article on a media web page. Standing in judgement based on that says more about he who judges than he who is judged.

Article like that are more about what is not mentioned than what is mentioned, I was once interviewed for 3 hours for a current affairs programme, about three and a half minutes of incredibly edited material was broadcast.

Mark

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#856251 16-Jul-2013 09:09

Doesn't seem to have any issues protesting publicly for someone who is frightened of people ... I REALLY hope her case worker cancels her sickness benefit now for lying about her "disability".

Mark

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#856253 16-Jul-2013 09:14

KiwiNZ: I was once interviewed for 3 hours for a current affairs programme, about three and a half minutes of incredibly edited material was broadcast.

Well to be honest I can understand why they'd chop that much out ....

jtbthatsme

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#856254 16-Jul-2013 09:14

Some of these comments are not really about the point of the post....if I understand what the OP is saying is that there is work out there, there is opportunity out there for those who actually want it for nearly everyone else there's training options either through Student Loan or through free courses run with Work and Income.

A lot of people will not go sweep streets, clean rubbish, change bums etc there are plenty of jobs out there they may not be the ideal of what you'd hoped to be doing in life but the fact remains that they're there.

Take myself for example 3 months back I was employed (with all sources of income considered) earning around $50k - $55k, had a place of my own and one of my 5 children in my care (love to have more but ultimately my circumstances at the time didn't allow for it).

Our family expenditure was probably around 80% of our income...made some mistakes lost my job, my house and chose to have my son return to his mothers care and moved in with my parents. At the time this was pretty devastating but now I'm over it.

I am on a benefit, will I stay there no, I will get a new job, a new place and maybe more than one of my sons back in my care for sure. It ain't gonna happen overnight but it will happen. People are too often too quick to count themselves out and think that "x" job is beneath them because before they used to do this or that. I'd happily take pretty much any job even at minimum wage, why??? because it will allow me to be independant and get back the things I've lost through my mistakes.

Sure there's always going to be those people on the benefit system that will do their best to pretend like they want to be off it but do very little to actually do so and then there's those people like myself who can take a huge kick in the guts and realise after initial shock it's not the end of the world there's always another job out there and pretty soon I intend to be doing just that.

The lady from the article could go out and get a job she doesn't need to be insulting to those who do choose to be prostitutes sure it is not a line of work that most people want to do but I can assure having worked as a driver several different times in that industry not a single one of them is doing it because they like it.

Get a grip if you want to work you will find a way to do just that. The benefit system was never intended to be a lifestyle choice it's just a shame that too often too many feel that it is.

MikeB4

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#856260 16-Jul-2013 09:34

Mark:
KiwiNZ: I was once interviewed for 3 hours for a current affairs programme, about three and a half minutes of incredibly edited material was broadcast.

Well to be honest I can understand why they'd chop that much out ....

you can?
you saw the pre edited versions?
clairvoyance?

networkn

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#856266 16-Jul-2013 09:41

KiwiNZ:
Mark:
KiwiNZ: I was once interviewed for 3 hours for a current affairs programme, about three and a half minutes of incredibly edited material was broadcast.

Well to be honest I can understand why they'd chop that much out ....

you can?
you saw the pre edited versions?
clairvoyance?

I think he was basing that on what else had been said by the same person and what nonsense he thought it was if I had to hazard a guess. Deduction perhaps.

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khull

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#856306 16-Jul-2013 10:50

A lot of people will not go sweep streets, clean rubbish, change bums etc there are plenty of jobs out there they may not be the ideal of what you'd hoped to be doing in life but the fact remains that they're there.

Agreed that they need to get a reality check - I would coin the opinion that people should do their best in what they do, even if the job in question may be the best in doing at.

My parents had difficulty accepting superannuation and handouts and I know of others who flat out refuse as well out of principle, but that means they had to resort to alternatives

dickytim

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#856378 16-Jul-2013 12:38

jtbthatsme: Some of these comments are not really about the point of the post....if I understand what the OP is saying is that there is work out there, there is opportunity out there for those who actually want it for nearly everyone else there's training options either through Student Loan or through free courses run with Work and Income.

A lot of people will not go sweep streets, clean rubbish, change bums etc there are plenty of jobs out there they may not be the ideal of what you'd hoped to be doing in life but the fact remains that they're there.

Take myself for example 3 months back I was employed (with all sources of income considered) earning around $50k - $55k, had a place of my own and one of my 5 children in my care (love to have more but ultimately my circumstances at the time didn't allow for it).

Our family expenditure was probably around 80% of our income...made some mistakes lost my job, my house and chose to have my son return to his mothers care and moved in with my parents. At the time this was pretty devastating but now I'm over it.

I am on a benefit, will I stay there no, I will get a new job, a new place and maybe more than one of my sons back in my care for sure. It ain't gonna happen overnight but it will happen. People are too often too quick to count themselves out and think that "x" job is beneath them because before they used to do this or that. I'd happily take pretty much any job even at minimum wage, why??? because it will allow me to be independant and get back the things I've lost through my mistakes.

Sure there's always going to be those people on the benefit system that will do their best to pretend like they want to be off it but do very little to actually do so and then there's those people like myself who can take a huge kick in the guts and realise after initial shock it's not the end of the world there's always another job out there and pretty soon I intend to be doing just that.

The lady from the article could go out and get a job she doesn't need to be insulting to those who do choose to be prostitutes sure it is not a line of work that most people want to do but I can assure having worked as a driver several different times in that industry not a single one of them is doing it because they like it.

Get a grip if you want to work you will find a way to do just that. The benefit system was never intended to be a lifestyle choice it's just a shame that too often too many feel that it is.

you are the cases where the benefit is of....benefit.

You have paid taxes now you need a helping hand.

sir1963

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#856381 16-Jul-2013 12:47

dickytim:
jtbthatsme: Some of these comments are not really about the point of the post....if I understand what the OP is saying is that there is work out there, there is opportunity out there for those who actually want it for nearly everyone else there's training options either through Student Loan or through free courses run with Work and Income.

A lot of people will not go sweep streets, clean rubbish, change bums etc there are plenty of jobs out there they may not be the ideal of what you'd hoped to be doing in life but the fact remains that they're there.

Take myself for example 3 months back I was employed (with all sources of income considered) earning around $50k - $55k, had a place of my own and one of my 5 children in my care (love to have more but ultimately my circumstances at the time didn't allow for it).

Our family expenditure was probably around 80% of our income...made some mistakes lost my job, my house and chose to have my son return to his mothers care and moved in with my parents. At the time this was pretty devastating but now I'm over it.

I am on a benefit, will I stay there no, I will get a new job, a new place and maybe more than one of my sons back in my care for sure. It ain't gonna happen overnight but it will happen. People are too often too quick to count themselves out and think that "x" job is beneath them because before they used to do this or that. I'd happily take pretty much any job even at minimum wage, why??? because it will allow me to be independant and get back the things I've lost through my mistakes.

Sure there's always going to be those people on the benefit system that will do their best to pretend like they want to be off it but do very little to actually do so and then there's those people like myself who can take a huge kick in the guts and realise after initial shock it's not the end of the world there's always another job out there and pretty soon I intend to be doing just that.

The lady from the article could go out and get a job she doesn't need to be insulting to those who do choose to be prostitutes sure it is not a line of work that most people want to do but I can assure having worked as a driver several different times in that industry not a single one of them is doing it because they like it.

Get a grip if you want to work you will find a way to do just that. The benefit system was never intended to be a lifestyle choice it's just a shame that too often too many feel that it is.

you are the cases where the benefit is of....benefit.

You have paid taxes now you need a helping hand.

And you know the other people have not paid taxes how ?

ajobbins

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#857404 16-Jul-2013 13:47

Benefits are a drop in the bucket compared to NZ super. There is no single thing we spend more of our tax dollars on than super payments (Over 12% of total tax spend), in fact nothing else comes close.

We have an ageing population of people who have a huge sense of entitlement. They have got more out of the government already in their lifetime than my generation every will. They hoard property, hide assets in trusts and they claim poverty and collect super.

I suspect many older people will cash out more from the tax system in retirement than they every put into it.

Time for a capital gains tax and means testing including trusts on NZ super. That is where the real benefit abuse is.

Twitter: ajobbins

networkn

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#857410 16-Jul-2013 13:53

ajobbins: Benefits are a drop in the bucket compared to NZ super. There is no single thing we spend more of our tax dollars on than super payments (Over 12% of total tax spend), in fact nothing else comes close.

We have an ageing population of people who have a huge sense of entitlement. They have got more out of the government already in their lifetime than my generation every will. They hoard property, hide assets in trusts and they claim poverty and collect super.

I suspect many older people will cash out more from the tax system in retirement than they every put into it.

Time for a capital gains tax and means testing including trusts on NZ super. That is where the real benefit abuse is.

Heh interesting perspective there. Those who would fail asset testing would likely have paid more tax than the others, in fact almost certainly.

One thing you, and everyone else fails to understand when making these arguments that benefit abuse isn't a big problem, is the loss of productivity that each of these people cause. Those people don't pay anywhere near the amount of tax, nor do they contribute to the workforce the way
working people (on the whole) do, which adds to the countries GDP Etc.

Also there are the flow on effects, that a number of people on benefits are living unhealthy lifestyles (Not saying all, before you jump down my throat, and yes I do understand it's often a matter of low income), often don't get medical issues resolved in a timely fashion and all that puts a strain on limited health resources.

macuser

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#857414 16-Jul-2013 13:58

I think it would be great if people who are on the unemployment benefit are required to do volunteering work for local community groups, or local councils.

This would look great on their CV and also give them a working routine and confidence, which you lose when not in work for a long period of time.

It would be also interesting if retired folks were also required to do it as part of their entitlements, or chose to retire later without the requirement.

networkn

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#857417 16-Jul-2013 14:02

macuser: I think it would be great if people who are on the unemployment benefit are required to do volunteering work for local community groups, or local councils.

This would look great on their CV and also give them a working routine and confidence, which you lose when not in work for a long period of time.

It would be also interesting if retired folks were also required to do it as part of their entitlements, or chose to retire later without the requirement.

Great idea, but wouldn't be a good thing in practical sense. Those who are on a benefit who do have a bad attitude would take it with them, the press would have a field day. Volunteer work needs to be
that, volunteer, otherwise it ends up being a debacle.

I had a similar idea that people on benefits (Sickness and DPB excluded) should be required to assist the government with building roads, collecting rubbish etc. Sadly the implementation would be a nightmare as well.

sen8or

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#857419 16-Jul-2013 14:02

I can't remember where I read it, but one article did a calculation for mandatory retirement at 60 with a 1mio govt payout.

Old people spend money, keeps economy going.
Old people retiring opens up more jobs

There were a few other points, and of course, it was only one side of he equation, but, it was an interesting read.

As for the article, piss poor reporting by the left wing dominated nz herald, as usual. Don't know enough about her circumstances, but if she gEnuinely can't work for medical reasons, then it would seem her benefit is safe. If she can work but chooses not to, her benefit isn't safe, nor should it be

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