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  Reply # 868750 30-Jul-2013 17:25
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http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=10905495

So the speaker of the house released a written statement saying he had asked for the phone records of journalist Andrea Vance, but they were declined.

Now he is saying he never asked or wanted them, but got them anyway. How can people be OK with these people being in charge of running our country. They clearly have to regard or respect for the law or the rights of the media or NZ citizens.

This sort of stuff should be a criminal offence. If I tried to illegally obtain someone's phone records I could be locked up, but when someone in the government does it, it was 'just a mistake'




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  Reply # 868751 30-Jul-2013 17:25
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Woolly: Would the Rainbow Warrior Bombing be the first known terror attack in NZ 1985?


For a loose enough definition of 'terrorism' maybe. Did they blow something up? Yes. Was their intent to make people afraid to go about their daily lives? No, not really, they just didn't like hippies.




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  Reply # 868756 30-Jul-2013 17:44
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Good point.

The Boston Bombers didn't like marathons?

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  Reply # 868795 30-Jul-2013 18:34
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SaltyNZ:
Woolly: Would the Rainbow Warrior Bombing be the first known terror attack in NZ 1985?


For a loose enough definition of 'terrorism' maybe. Did they blow something up? Yes. Was their intent to make people afraid to go about their daily lives? No, not really, they just didn't like hippies.


Terrorism is happening in New Zealand right now.

The take down of certain websites that oppose this GCSB bill can also be seen as acts of terrorism.

Anonymous takes down National Party websites

"One man's terrorist is another man's freedom fighter" Not sure who said it. But it sure is true.


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  Reply # 868804 30-Jul-2013 18:42
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Klipspringer: The take down of certain websites that oppose this GCSB bill can also be seen as acts of terrorism.


Even Bill English (who's own site was taken down) said he sees it as a legitimate form of protest, not terrorism.

"Finance Minister Bill English said he thought the hacking was a legitimate form of expression and saw it as protest."
http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=10905329




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  Reply # 868808 30-Jul-2013 18:55
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ajobbins:
Klipspringer: The take down of certain websites that oppose this GCSB bill can also be seen as acts of terrorism.


Even Bill English (who's own site was taken down) said he sees it as a legitimate form of protest, not terrorism.

"Finance Minister Bill English said he thought the hacking was a legitimate form of expression and saw it as protest."
http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=10905329


Actually its called Cyberterrorism





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  Reply # 868851 30-Jul-2013 20:13
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Everything is scarier with the word 'cyber' in front of it. Cyberfluff. Cybercarpet. Cyberjelly. See?




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  Reply # 868855 30-Jul-2013 20:20
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Klipspringer:
turnin: Besides do you think a terrorist is going to use an unencrypted connection. ?


If you so worried about your privacy then you can follow the same principle. Use a VPN to encrypt your information.

Dont use a VPN to the USA though. Because the spies are already recording all of your data there. Every Google search, every email. Thats been happening for years ...

Why does everybody get upset just because our government is going to have access to it? Other governments outside NZ have had access to this sort of data of ours for years.




VPN's? Nope, they'll just make VPN's (that don't have backdoors already) illegal instead.

 

ajobbins:
Klipspringer: The take down of certain websites that oppose this GCSB bill can also be seen as acts of terrorism.

Even Bill English (who's own site was taken down) said he sees it as a legitimate form of protest, not terrorism. "Finance Minister Bill English said he thought the hacking was a legitimate form of expression and saw it as protest." http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=10905329


He'll only be saying that to undermine actual protesters though. Blame the protestors for vandalism and you weaken their legitimacy.

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  Reply # 868878 30-Jul-2013 20:56
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This is the governments version of 'Big Data'




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  Reply # 868905 30-Jul-2013 21:26
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Woolly: Would the Rainbow Warrior Bombing be the first known terror attack in NZ 1985?

Trades Center bombing in Wellington was before this.......

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  Reply # 869396 31-Jul-2013 16:33
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oxnsox:
Woolly: Would the Rainbow Warrior Bombing be the first known terror attack in NZ 1985?

Trades Center bombing in Wellington was before this.......

And I'll raise your 1984 death of Ernie ??? with the Rail Bridge bombing near huntly during the 1951 water siders dipsutes.

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  Reply # 869397 31-Jul-2013 16:35
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Klipspringer:

"One man's terrorist is another man's freedom fighter" Not sure who said it. But it sure is true.


Nelson Mandella?

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  Reply # 869402 31-Jul-2013 16:40
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minimoke:
Klipspringer:

"One man's terrorist is another man's freedom fighter" Not sure who said it. But it sure is true.


Nelson Mandella?


Gerald Seymour




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  Reply # 869470 31-Jul-2013 18:42
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SaltyNZ:
Woolly: Would the Rainbow Warrior Bombing be the first known terror attack in NZ 1985?


For a loose enough definition of 'terrorism' maybe. Did they blow something up? Yes. Was their intent to make people afraid to go about their daily lives? No, not really, they just didn't like hippies.


Their intent was to destroy resources and intimidate in order to prevent protest, something that in New Zealand we regard as a right in our daily lives. So, yes, it was terrorism.
Not that I'm comfortable bandying the word about like some kind of omnipresent boogyman, but it meets your definition.

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  Reply # 869476 31-Jul-2013 18:50
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Klipspringer:

What are the alternatives? See where the above is going? What part of IRA-style war on New Zealand are u not understanding? TO me that sounds a little bit more serious than my facebook photos, and call records, and bank statements being made available to government. As I said I have nothing to hide.

I never ever implied that this kind of so called “spying” was a good thing. I just don’t see any alternatives. Maybe you can offer some good alternatives and how we can legally put this clown and his cronies away?

We can’t spy on the guy? That sounds absurd. Its “privacy” gone mad. What right does he have to privacy if he is/was planning this against NZ?

Its not that I agree that this “spying is OK” Its that I think the consequences of not doing it just outweighs the negatives about my so called right to 100% privacy (which I don’t really have now anyway)



All right, even though this discussion is getting tedious, I'll give you an alternative.

There is a clear legal framework saying how information can be collected, the types of reasons it can be collected and used for, and how it can be authorised. The authorisation has to be judical not political - a judge not the PM.

The police (or other responsible authority) have a prima facie reason to believe that you are involved in some type of qualifying serious crime. They go to the judge. The judge issues a warrant. At that point they can intercept email etc - just like is used to be to intercept your phone or snail-mail.

There are material penalties if they snoop and intercept your mail, phone, email, bank records or whatever without a proper judicial interception warrant. Plus that illegally gathered evidence can't be used in court.

As for the examples I tried to give about when improperly gathered information might be used to the disadvantage of someone who had done noting wrong, which you called blatant tinfoil-hattery, have you followed the recent Andrea Vance story at all?



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