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Ultimate Geek
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  Reply # 869938 1-Aug-2013 13:38
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ajobbins:
Klipspringer: Strange this ...

Microsoft and google already have most of our private information anyway and will already quiet happily pass it over to the NZ law enforcement agencies if required.

Dont think any of the tech giants will be leaving NZ.


Maybe they are worried that the government will learn exactly how much they know, and stop them from knowing as much as they know now.


If their info is that good, the GCSB will probably work with them and pay them off to have access.

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  Reply # 869945 1-Aug-2013 13:51
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PaulBags: If their info is that good, the GCSB will probably work with them and pay them off to have access.


Well the NSA allegedly have that arrangement now




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Master Geek
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  Reply # 870014 1-Aug-2013 14:42
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Coherent reply for ajobbins:

A community of spies would starve to death.

Side note: Some places you work, all calls are recorded and kept for 7 years. It used to be on large reels of tape.

#define TRUE FALSE  //Happy debugging


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  Reply # 870024 1-Aug-2013 14:59
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Woolly: Coherent reply for ajobbins:

A community of spies would starve to death.

Side note: Some places you work, all calls are recorded and kept for 7 years. It used to be on large reels of tape.

#define TRUE FALSE  //Happy debugging



The recording is not covert




Mike
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The views stated in my posts are my personal views and not that of any other organisation.

 

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The great divide is the lies from both sides.

 

 


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  Reply # 870081 1-Aug-2013 15:46
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True KiwiNZ.

Would NSA spying now no longer be covert?

One of the guys on the floor wanted a recording off the tape for a car deal that had gone wrong. Took network guys 4 hours to find it.

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  Reply # 870145 1-Aug-2013 16:55
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Looks correct about NSA Officer and office at GCSB.

http://www.wikileaks.org/plusd/cables/04WELLINGTON662_a.html

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  Reply # 870322 1-Aug-2013 21:05
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Woolly:
A community of spies would starve to death.


Have to agree Woolly.

The issue I see here is that we're paying money to spy at all while we have kids not eating enough breakfast, lunch and dinner.

We also have people eating unhealthy food while we spend money recording and saving phone calls and phone meta data.

I don't really understand personally.

I've been trying to follow this stuff about that fairfax jurno, but I just don't get it.

Someone breaks the law, then gets 3 months pay and off to find a new job.

Really?

This stuff is just getting more and more bizarre to me.

I'd kinda like these people to hack into my text records for the last 24 hours.  They'd find a thread of texts between my wife and I attempting to sort out our GST return for the month and worrying about getting it in on time.  That caused us both stress.

Why bother?

Don't get me wrong for a second...  I'm not suggesting for a second that we go rogue and start planning to do stupid antisocial stuff... I'm just questioning why bother working, paying tax, even making and effort? 

May as well just collect a benefit, live in a state house and do a few cash jobs on the side like many kiwis already do.




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  Reply # 870400 2-Aug-2013 00:44
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Hi Don,

Sorry ajobbins this will seem incoherent, I'll try get to the point in my own time.

In the 30's my Granddad came across a solo mother family of 3 living off watercress. He was always a strong supporter of social welfare after that.

A delivery of couch/chairs and some lollies donated by a multi-coloured haired lesbian pot smoker (good woman) to a solo mother who had been living in a garage with 4/5 children for over 6 months. Now in a house. They were really grateful.

A beggar in Welly use to rummage thru the skip and eat the leftovers.

A stripper taught others how to dance.

A question to homeless guy, why are you homeless, his answer "I like the freedom". If he went to a charity house he didn't like the rules.

The examples above and many others, they don't know and don't care about the GCSB bill or any other bill.

PAYE, GST, ACC any other levies are examples of spying on ourselves. You have a body of words that take reams of paper, most of which you don't understand re-presented in a booklet where your required to sign.

One example - The information in this return is true and correct and represents my assessment as required under the Tax Administration Act 1994.

If you sign this then your liable even though you have no understanding of the act and probably never read it.

Now if you don't sign something you don't really understand, force (direct or inferred) will be used against you.

I developed a system many years ago to track problems, it was very successful and the managers liked it a lot. It went down to the individual level. So then they wanted to match performance to salaries.

Question things and do your own research.

Create your own community by getting to know your neighbors.

Empathy and compassion for others no matter what their walk of life.

Tattoos and weird hair are just people expressing themselves.

Invite grandmothers into your life. Even the real hard ones soften with age.

Grow your own food. Try "Cooked" by Michael Pollan.

Government is a man made fiction for good or bad (seditious libel). It's the new religion (don't worry the government will fix it). In CHCH it was the people that really hung things together.

And the point:

Human relations are about trust.

Spying breaks the trust.

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  Reply # 870446 2-Aug-2013 08:40
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  Reply # 870461 2-Aug-2013 08:59
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freitasm: Here is one example of what happens when the state spies on everyone instead of focusing on known threats relations: Police raid New York blogger’s home after she did Google searches for pressure cookers.

Search for knowledge is not a crime.


And now all their neighbours probably think they are criminals, they might have flags on them in police computers with various implications. Perhaps their employer got a visit too from the cops asking a few questions (and raising suspicions of the victim)




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  Reply # 870462 2-Aug-2013 09:00
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Woolly:Sorry ajobbins this will seem incoherent, I'll try get to the point in my own time.


tl;dr




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  Reply # 870463 2-Aug-2013 09:00
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In other words, their lives is going to be a nightmare from now on. They probably have their names in no fly lists, credit card watchlists. Every single purchase they make from now is going to be "analysed" by some grad intern that will decide what happens next.

Welcome to surveillance state. A good example for those who say "I have nothing to hide, so I have nothing to worry."






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  Reply # 870469 2-Aug-2013 09:08
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revelations this week indicate that this power should not be given. Incompetence and dishonesty should not be rewarded. 




Mike
Retired IT Manager. 
The views stated in my posts are my personal views and not that of any other organisation.

 

 Mac user, Windows curser, Chrome OS desired.

 

The great divide is the lies from both sides.

 

 


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Ultimate Geek
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  Reply # 870480 2-Aug-2013 09:22
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After the younger Tsarnaev got charged for using WMDs, I googled it, turns out anything that isn't a gun and is explosive is a WMD more or less. Then I went onto Briscoes to find out what a pressure cooker actually was; basically seems like a fancy rice cooker. Wonder if I'm on any Government watchlists...

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  Reply # 870524 2-Aug-2013 10:28
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Paul Brislen has written a post on the TUANZ blog about this here

The list of events/track record towards the end has plenty of examples, all recent, to show why the government isn't capable of protecting such information even if their intentions on its use are good (Which itself is questionable)




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