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BDFL - Memuneh
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  Reply # 873006 7-Aug-2013 09:29
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freitasm: So put better security at the memorial, not in everyone else's place.


And how do you propose they impliment that security? By not searching "everybody's" bags? By not putting up cameras which record everybody entering/exiting the memorial? Please explain this security you refering to?

Security = searching people and/or bags = Where's my privacy????

Anybody that goes to the memorial does not have the right to total privacy.





BDFL - Memuneh
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  Reply # 873007 7-Aug-2013 09:31
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Klipspringer:
freitasm: So put better security at the memorial, not in everyone else's place.


And how do you propose they impliment that security? By not searching "everybody's" bags? By not putting up cameras which record everybody entering/exiting the memorial? Please explain this security you refering to?

Security = searching people and/or bags = Where's my privacy????

Anybody that goes to the memorial does not have the right to total privacy.



Exactly as I said: better security at the memorial. Be it cameras, etc. As you said and I agree, people have no expectation of privacy in public.

Using this vandalism as support for a carte blanche for the GCSB to have powers over EVERYONE else in the country is way beyond the need.





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  Reply # 873008 7-Aug-2013 09:32
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freitasm:
Exactly as I said: better security at the memorial. Be it cameras, etc. You have no expectation of privacy in public.

Using this vandalism as support for a carte blanche for the GCSB to have powers over EVERYONE is way beyond the benefits proposed.



The internet is a public place.

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  Reply # 873009 7-Aug-2013 09:32
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Klipspringer:
freitasm: So put better security at the memorial, not in everyone else's place.


And how do you propose they impliment that security? By not searching "everybody's" bags? By not putting up cameras which record everybody entering/exiting the memorial? Please explain this security you refering to?

Security = searching people and/or bags = Where's my privacy????

Anybody that goes to the memorial does not have the right to total privacy.






unfortunately all too many think their Internet or Cell is more important than common human decency

But trivialising the incident is almost as bad




Mike
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The great divide is the lies from both sides.

 

 


BDFL - Memuneh
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  Reply # 873011 7-Aug-2013 09:35
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You both are confusing The Internet (infrastructure) with Internet-based services, which can store and forward data.

One thing is people posting their thoughts in public view (Twitter), another thing is people sending an email from Person A to Person B. The email has an implied privacy setting, like a letter inside an envelope.

It may be easy to see the packets flowing, but people expect privacy and certainly if a government agency want to look at those packets they then need a legal warrant and oversight.





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  Reply # 873012 7-Aug-2013 09:37
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KiwiNZ: But trivialising the incident is almost as bad


Do you think we should give the government all access to everyone's lives at the whim of the Prime Minister because of Jewish graves desecration? Incidents like that happened before and we shouldn't give the government surveillance state powers to prevent that happening. The police is already empowered to investigate these things.







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  Reply # 873013 7-Aug-2013 09:39
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freitasm: You both are confusing The Internet (infrastructure) with Internet-based services, which can store and forward data.

One thing is people posting their thoughts in public view (Twitter), another thing is people sending an email from Person A to Person B. The email has an implied privacy setting, like a letter inside an envelope.

It may be easy to see the packets flowing, but people expect privacy and certainly if a government agency want to look at those packets they then need a legal warrant and oversight.



No I am not, I do know the difference, I did not come down in those showers in the last hour in Wellington




Mike
Retired IT Manager. 
The views stated in my posts are my personal views and not that of any other organisation.

 

 Mac user, Windows curser, Chrome OS desired.

 

The great divide is the lies from both sides.

 

 


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  Reply # 873014 7-Aug-2013 09:39
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freitasm:  another thing is people sending an email from Person A to Person B. The email has an implied privacy setting, like a letter inside an envelope.


If you are paying for a secure service maybe, but thats not the norm. If you are using gmail, or anything else. Its probably best to not expect your email to be private.

freitasm:
It may be easy to see the packets flowing, but people expect privacy and certainly if a government agency want to look at those packets they then need a legal warrant and oversight.



Unless I setup my own encryption (ie build from scratch and validate it myself, end to end). I don't expect privacy. Big brother is already watching .....

No ISP will guarantee the privacy of your data. Why do people believe that all their data is private, and cannot be accessed by third parties? To me that's a very dangerous way of thinking. In fact I even teach my kids to be careful of what they do on the internet, and to always make sure that whatever they choose to do, it can be viewed by another person. From homework, to emailing, chats and even chatting over skype.

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  Reply # 873016 7-Aug-2013 09:53
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freitasm:
KiwiNZ: But trivialising the incident is almost as bad


Do you think we should give the government all access to everyone's lives at the whim of the Prime Minister because of Jewish graves desecration? Incidents like that happened before and we shouldn't give the government surveillance state powers to prevent that happening. The police is already empowered to investigate these things.





Your example further reinforces my position. Incidents like the Jewish Graves in Auckland and the desecration of War Memorials and other Cemeteries, this incident in Christchurch is becoming more frequent. A society that allows , condones, trivialises or fails to act against these actions does not deserve certain freedoms. 




Mike
Retired IT Manager. 
The views stated in my posts are my personal views and not that of any other organisation.

 

 Mac user, Windows curser, Chrome OS desired.

 

The great divide is the lies from both sides.

 

 


BDFL - Memuneh
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  Reply # 873018 7-Aug-2013 09:56
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KiwiNZ:
freitasm:
KiwiNZ: But trivialising the incident is almost as bad


Do you think we should give the government all access to everyone's lives at the whim of the Prime Minister because of Jewish graves desecration? Incidents like that happened before and we shouldn't give the government surveillance state powers to prevent that happening. The police is already empowered to investigate these things.



Your example further reinforces my position. Incidents like the Jewish Graves in Auckland and the desecration of War Memorials and other Cemeteries, this incident in Christchurch is becoming more frequent. A society that allows , condones, trivialises or fails to act against these actions does not deserve certain freedoms. 


No one outside the perpetrators would condone these acts. What I am saying is that Police already have powers to investigate these and there's no need to give the GCSB more powers to tap into people's private lives when there are already mechanisms to find and prosecute those criminals.





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  Reply # 873027 7-Aug-2013 10:20
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freitasm:
KiwiNZ:
freitasm:
KiwiNZ: But trivialising the incident is almost as bad


Do you think we should give the government all access to everyone's lives at the whim of the Prime Minister because of Jewish graves desecration? Incidents like that happened before and we shouldn't give the government surveillance state powers to prevent that happening. The police is already empowered to investigate these things.



Your example further reinforces my position. Incidents like the Jewish Graves in Auckland and the desecration of War Memorials and other Cemeteries, this incident in Christchurch is becoming more frequent. A society that allows , condones, trivialises or fails to act against these actions does not deserve certain freedoms. 


No one outside the perpetrators would condone these acts. What I am saying is that Police already have powers to investigate these and there's no need to give the GCSB more powers to tap into people's private lives when there are already mechanisms to find and prosecute those criminals.



And the mechanisms you proposing are setting up cameras. Spying!!!!

Camera "spying" is currently illegal in many cases. Once again lets go back to the Tami Iti trial. The camera evidence was deemed illegal and was not allowed to be used as evidence in the court. So he got off on a light sentence. Despite the fact he was planning "WAR" against New Zealand. (And there was proof of that)

This example is proof that the police have their hands tied in many cases. They therefore DON'T have the powers.

The "cameras" which you are actually proposing in your previous post are what they GCSG bill is trying to legalize. (Except making them hidden) In most cases cameras can be put up yes. But as far as I know, they are not allowed to be hidden. And there are many restrictions as to where you are allowed to put them up (somebody else can hopefully comment here). I'm unsure about cemeteries, and the legal implications on just implementing them anywhere without signs, in public places etc ...

That aside. Public video cameras detour crime yes. But that does not catch the criminals. It just moves criminals somewhere else, ie to the next cemetery.





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  Reply # 873033 7-Aug-2013 10:36
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I was told cameras on private property overlooking the street need to have a sign up. Why this would be the case, I don't know.

A manager looking over employees shoulders every five minutes doesn't induce a happy work environment. Once in a while they might catch employees on Geekzone. ;)



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  Reply # 873034 7-Aug-2013 10:37
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"Artist Peter Majendie told The Press about 20 chairs had been replaced because of theft or vandalism since the installation was first set up in Oxford Tce"

Talk about unbelievable over-reactions...

It's an ongoing problem. Regular overnight patrols by passing security guards/police would be sufficient to prevent this. Installing lights would be ideal as well - in this day and age there's no excuse for not following CPTED principles.

EDIT: added a missing word (highlighted for clarity)

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