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  Reply # 883358 23-Aug-2013 12:58
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PaulBags:
Klipspringer: At the time he could not be charged with terrorism because the evidence obtained by police was obtained illegally. It could not be used in his trial.

Think about that statement for a second. The police, the supposed instruments of the law, acted illegally. Does this seriously makes you feel warm and fuzzy?


Question:

Whats more important to you?

1) Keeping this guy off the street.
2) His privacy

I don't care how that evidence was obtained. That evidence tells a story about what these people where was really up to.

IMO They had no right to privacy


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  Reply # 883364 23-Aug-2013 13:17
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Klipspringer:  what these people where was really up to.




Well, I certainly see your point. While out on bail awaiting trial these dangerous psychos left a trail of blood and violence behind them that would make Quentin Tarantino puke his guts up in disgust, before being captured at the end of a 72 hour standoff ending in a gun battle with military-style automatic weapons and a limited regional strategic nuclear arms exchange.

I should point though that the two hardcore nutters were in fact sentenced to prison anyway, so it's not as if they're out there right now, gunning for you, Klipspringer. I note two of the not-quite-so-nutters got home detention. I hope it was maximum security home detention; otherwise I'm afraid we all might get murdered in our beds.






iPad Air + iPhone SE + 2degrees 4tw!

These comments are my own and do not represent the opinions of 2degrees.


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Ultimate Geek
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  Reply # 883473 23-Aug-2013 15:56
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If both sides are engaged in illegal activities, but one side is playing games while the other is actually raiding peoples homes and school busses pointing guns at them; well then who is the terrorist?

The government, police, and the GCSB work for the people of New Zealand. They've shown they're willing to break the law and do whatever they want to the people they're supposed to represent. IMO they have no right to keep their activities secret from the public.

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  Reply # 883587 23-Aug-2013 20:20
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Terrorism is the systematic use of terror, often violent, especially as a means of coercion.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Terrorism#Origin_of_term

Lawful - Is about ethics eg right and wrong. Different cultures have different views on what right and wrong are. Cannibalism as an example http://metro.co.uk/2011/05/20/british-royals-used-to-be-cannibals-dining-on-human-flesh-17539/ . Slavery is another, either physical or monetarily.

Legality - Is about contracts. A mortgage is monetary enslavement, still legal.

PaulBags: "The government, police, and the GCSB work for the people of New Zealand."

Within the current system all the above give their oath to the queen and offspring.

Company workers/Bureaucrats live within rules, otherwise they lose their position/status or job. For example a bureaucrat may kick out families from a home for overcrowding, because of fire risk or what not. At the same time the Bureaucrats have overextended themselves and are being foreclosed on their own homes. The irony of the situation is beyond their comprehension.

Tuhoe men and women are not a threat to others. To those with machine minds and machine hearts, Tuhoe philosophy/ideas are a huge threat.

When part of the herd splits, you need to act swiftly and violently if needed to bring it back into the main herd. The below links are just examples. Another example is "David Kelly"
http://www.3news.co.nz/Guardian-tells-of-destroying-Snowden-hard-drives/tabid/417/articleID/309933/Default.aspx
http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2013/aug/09/lavabit-shutdown-snowden-silicon-valley
http://www.stuff.co.nz/world/europe/9077319/Inquiry-over-injurious-Snowden-linked-data

How to counter dissidents:
- Discredit them as fools publicly in the media, with false information. Leak stories about them that are plausible, and a little bit of truth. Eg X is linked with Y. Any number of scenarios can be brought to bear. The person of interest has no come back unless they are wealthy and are willing to lodge a defamation suit, which is mostly based on monetary loss not on integrity.

...  More steps here, you can do your own research.

- If all else fails then just bump them off and make it look like an accident. Small planes and cars are popular. For a simulated suicide, don't double tap as the training says so.
Eg "Gary Webb"


Someone mentioned Freedom a few pages back. Freedom = Responsibility for your own actions. A group in the U.S. was asked whether they would like illegal drugs stopped in the U.S. They responded with an overwhelming "Yes". The next question was would you still support it, if it affected your pension, no one put up their hand. Research Catherine Austin Fitts.

On a light note this is how to take over a country. 24 min.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=RVsB07CcSNw


Charlie Chaplin final speech in The Great Dictator
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QcvjoWOwnn4


Please do your own research.

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Ultimate Geek
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  Reply # 883701 23-Aug-2013 23:10
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Woolly: PaulBags: "The government, police, and the GCSB work for the people of New Zealand."

Within the current system all the above give their oath to the queen and offspring.


Good point. In that case the people of New Zealand have no fair representation, revolution is justified, and Tame Iti is a patriot.

... and with that sentiment expressed, I fully expect to be thrown in a deep dark hole at some point.

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  Reply # 883769 24-Aug-2013 08:52
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PaulBags: 

Good point. In that case the people of New Zealand have no fair representation, revolution is justified, and Tame Iti is a patriot.

... and with that sentiment expressed, I fully expect to be thrown in a deep dark hole at some point.


A minority will never have fair representation. That's democracy for you. 

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  Reply # 883996 24-Aug-2013 19:01
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Klipspringer:
PaulBags: 

Good point. In that case the people of New Zealand have no fair representation, revolution is justified, and Tame Iti is a patriot.

... and with that sentiment expressed, I fully expect to be thrown in a deep dark hole at some point.


A minority will never have fair representation. That's democracy for you. 

The whole of New Zealand is a minority now? Perhaps on the world stage...

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Master Geek
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  Reply # 884337 25-Aug-2013 21:20
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Hi PaulBags,

[1. In that case the people of New Zealand have no fair representation, 2. revolution is justified, and 3. Tame Iti is a patriot.]

1. Representation is an illusion in regard to women and men. In the real world either your present or your not. No one can represent you, they would need to have the same life experiences, opinions, ailments as yourself. You are unique in every shape and form.

2. [revolution is justified]
Thomas Jefferson quotes (American 3rd US President (1801-09).
“Every generation needs a new revolution.”
“The spirit of resistance to government is so valuable on certain occasions that I wish it to be always kept alive.”
“I would rather be exposed to the inconveniences attending too much liberty than to those attending too small a degree of it.”

Some could say Windows 8 (SB should have left years ago) or the GCSB bill was revolutionary.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/French_Revolution

re- a prefix, occurring orig. in loanwords from Latin, used to form verbs denoting action in a backward direction (recede; return; revert), action in answer to or intended to undo a situation (rebel; remove; respond; restore; revoke), or action done over, often with the implication that the outcome of the original action was in some way impermanent or inadequate, or that the performance of the new action brings back an earlier state of affairs (recapture; reoccur; repossess; retype). Also, red-.

I put Latin in bold above as the NZ court system as well as many others around the world operate under Canon law. Why do they wear priest costumes and wigs?

Transparency in government (religion) is sacred. If the public were made aware of what goes on, then people would lose faith.

3. [Tame Iti is a patriot.] Correct. To the Tuhoe Nation. I have yet to see any evidence, that Tama Iti harmed others.


PaulBags: [The whole of New Zealand is a minority now? Perhaps on the world stage...]

So true, Every woman and man is a minority projecting their persona on the world stage.

People act out their jobs. Eg an MP is an acting Member of Parliament who helps shape Acts of parliament. When they get home to their family they put on another act.

Watch parliament TV and you'll see the actors in play. If you can watch more than 30 minutes, then I salute you.

Acts are not law. Try and create an act that says your neighbor must mow your lawns. The only way you can get your neighbor to mow your lawn is by force.

Below is a speech by JFK, very relevant to the GCSB bill.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xhZk8ronces

Bill Hicks on JFK assassination.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=11Fl9ZVJ7B8

Sys Admin have more control and responsibilities for digital data than any others. They are on call 24/7 every day of the year on a roster system. They can access every email, phone call, spreadsheet etc, within their entity (company, ISP etc). What I've found is they don't give a crap about the data, unless they're called up at 3am to restore a clearing house system during an upgrade lost all existing system users.

Klipspringer: [A minority will never have fair representation. That's democracy for you.]

A minority with enough media attention can project their view beyond the minority. Eg Snails in Westland.

The current government (religion) is a minority, and so will be the next.


Don (many pages back): You we're looking for a solution.

The last thing I would like to see is a violent revolution/evolution.

One US web commentator made the quote "When people lose everything they have nothing to lose".

When the Auckland house bubble bursts people will be looking for saviors.

For those taking out mortgages now put your own conditions in the agreement. Eg cover yourself for devaluation, non payment, anything you can think of as long as it is within reason.

Educate yourself on where money comes from.











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  Reply # 885117 27-Aug-2013 08:49
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Woolly:

Klipspringer: [A minority will never have fair representation. That's democracy for you.]

A minority with enough media attention can project their view beyond the minority. Eg Snails in Westland.

The current government (religion) is a minority, and so will be the next.


I meant that in a true democracy a minority will never have fair represntation in government. Thats democracy.

Look at our undemocratic Maori seats. If we were a true democracy they would not be there.

Nothing about media attention. Sure, a minority can create a sti, and project their views. But thats normally where it ends.

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  Reply # 885424 27-Aug-2013 17:46
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Mark: Personally I don't care ... whoopdeedoo the goverment is "spying" on us, makes such a huge difference in my daily life I've no idea how I will cope, perhaps I'll go hide under the bed ?

Come on get a life people and find something worthwhile to be upset about.


There's no problem provided THEY think you're doing nothing wrong.

Hey..did you see the NSA staff were using their powers to spy on potential love interests and their ex's? 

Maybe no one wants to spy on you. Are you ugly? :-)  




____________________________________________________
I'm on a high fibre diet. 

 

High fibre diet


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Master Geek
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  Reply # 885542 27-Aug-2013 20:47
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Klipsringer: [I meant that in a true democracy a minority will never have fair represntation in government. Thats democracy.]

The above is true. In a true democracy 51% control the other 49% by force.

Some have said of "Democracy", "Democracy is Mob rule". Others "Democracy is two wolves and a sheep deciding what's for dinner."

From what I have read about the creation of the US constitution, it was about limiting the power of government. Eg. The mob could rule but could not intrude on the life of the  family or individual. It was a utopian dream, that appears to have run its course.

Below is from http://www.parliament.nz/en-nz/about-parliament/how-parliament-works/our-system/00CLOOCHowPWorks111/our-system-of-government
My comments in italics.
Our (please define who Our is?) Government is formed from a democratically elected House of Representatives (re-present physically impossible). The Government advises the Sovereign (our head of State). By convention, the Sovereign, the source of all executive legal authority in New Zealand, acts on the advice of the Government in all but the most exceptional circumstances. This system is known as a constitutional monarchy.

"Monarchy", "Divine right of kings" is a lot like the "Tooth Fairy".

The current main stream media are very good at promoting the myth.

Here's some Stats:

Total Votes Cast for National Party 2011
1,058,636
Electors on Master Roll who did not Vote
791,858

http://www.electionresults.govt.nz/electionresults_2011/e9/html/statistics.html

Total votes for GCSB Bill
5,879 (11%)
Opposed
46,790 (89%)

http://www.3news.co.nz/Campbell-Live-GCSB-roadie-poll-end/tabid/817/articleID/309661/Default.aspx

MP's For
61
MP's Against
59


http://www.3news.co.nz/GCSB-Bill-becomes-law/tabid/1607/articleID/310009/Default.aspx

Beware Dragons below:

Light Reading
Powershift: Knowledge, Wealth, and Violence at the Edge of the 21st Century by Alvin Toffler
http://www.amazon.com/Powershift-Knowledge-Wealth-Violence-Century/dp/0553292153

Lysander Spooner
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lysander_Spooner

Corrupt Democracy in the US
http://endthelie.com/2012/04/18/18-venn-diagrams-showing-how-corrupted-american-democracy-really-is/

Predictions made in 2002
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zGDisyWkIBM

Keep an eye on the US and Europe, and it will give you an insight on what will happen in NZ.

Please research the following words Rate payer, Tax payer, Fee Simple, Allodial Title, Agenda 21.

Fee Simple
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fee_simple

Mangawhai Ratepayers Revolt
http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=10844763

If your a Rate Payer are you liable for the council's debts? If you stop paying rates are you no longer liable? Now take this to the next level. If your a taxpayer/voter are you liable for government debt?

It may seem off topic but the people above who raise a noise, need to be monitored and dissent muffled to keep the status quo. Add environmentalists to the list as well for good measure.

Linuxluver: were you refering to David Petraeus?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/David_Petraeus

Spitzer
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eliot_Spitzer

Washington Madam suicided not long after saying she would not commit suicide on live broadcast.

On a lighter note
The American Dream coming to an island near you 4min
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=acLW1vFO-2Q

BDFL - Memuneh
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  Reply # 885567 27-Aug-2013 21:35
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Woolly: Linuxluver: were you refering to David Petraeus?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/David_Petraeus


No, he was talking about exposed cases in the last couple of days where intelligence officers used the state's resources to gather information about lovers and ex relationships.






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Master Geek
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  Reply # 885611 27-Aug-2013 23:00
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My apologies can you provide links.

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Ultimate Geek
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  Reply # 885725 28-Aug-2013 09:49
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Woolly:
Here's some Stats:

Total Votes Cast for National Party 2011
1,058,636
Electors on Master Roll who did not Vote
791,858

http://www.electionresults.govt.nz/electionresults_2011/e9/html/statistics.html

Total votes for GCSB Bill
5,879 (11%)
Opposed
46,790 (89%)

http://www.3news.co.nz/Campbell-Live-GCSB-roadie-poll-end/tabid/817/articleID/309661/Default.aspx



Here's how those stats combine:

46,790 / 1,058,636 = 4.4%

...so, over twenty times more people voted for the National Party than voted against the GCSB legislation.


Lies.  Damn lies.  And statistics :-)


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