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Mr Snotty
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  # 914470 13-Oct-2013 21:40
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surfisup1000:
Dunnersfella: Why a refund? Why not a replacement?
That would have been considered an out of box failure, surely they'd have just given you a brand new unit on the spot? Maybe remove it from the box, then use that to send to the supplier?


We wanted a replacement, but, they didn't have any others in stock. 

I just don't understand why it should be necessary to supply the original box. LIke I said, I've had the same types of issues with Noel Leeming and Harvey Norman and they never required it. 

The first thing I usually do after buying something, is bin the packaging.  


Lesson: Don't bin the packaging until you've fully tested and are happy with the product. I personally retain boxes for at-least a month just in case, but even after a day they can't resell the unit without the box so it's a loss for them, so the only other option for the retailer to not occur a loss if they can't replace is to repair and it's their right to under the CGA to do so. You might be able to ask them to replace with a different printer and pay the price difference but without a box they're still taking a hit on this and don't have to agree to replace it for you.






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  # 914473 13-Oct-2013 21:45
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johnr: Why you would take it back 1 day after purchase without the packaging is beyond me


Because by law the packaging is not required for a refund /replacement. 

Quite simple really. 

 
 
 
 




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  # 914475 13-Oct-2013 21:47
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michaelmurfy:

Lesson: Don't bin the packaging until you've fully tested and are happy with the product. I personally retain boxes for at-least a month just in case, but even after a day they can't resell the unit without the box so it's a loss for them, so the only other option for the retailer to not occur a loss if they can't replace is to repair and it's their right to under the CGA to do so. You might be able to ask them to replace with a different printer and pay the price difference but without a box they're still taking a hit on this and don't have to agree to replace it for you.


Sorry, I have to correct you as your knowledge of the law is quite wrong. 

For major faults, they must give the option of replacing/refund for major faults (and this was major). 

Why would they try to resell a faulty unit anyway?



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  # 914480 13-Oct-2013 22:03
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surfisup1000: 

Sorry, I have to correct you as your knowledge of the law is quite wrong. 

For major faults, they must give the option of replacing/refund for major faults (and this was major). 

Why would they try to resell a faulty unit anyway?


I've worked for 5 major retailers, and even for major faults you always had to send the product away, what you call a major fault might be in fact minor and if there was a major fault you still shouldn't have thrown the box away, the retailer still has the right to send it off for a repair and if they can't repair it then they can offer a replacement or a refund. Else you'll be getting all customers saying they've got a major fault.

The retailer still has to repair the unit, they've paid for it to sell, but nobody will buy a unit that has no box. If you had the box it'll be fine but without a box they make a loss from an unsellable product or a product they have to sell below cost due to the fact it doesn't have a box.

Would you pay full price for a product that's clearly used and doesn't have a box?




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  # 914486 13-Oct-2013 22:16
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Plenty of packaging isn't reusable even if kept, or would still look like crap if they did. Harvey Norman did expect me to pay full price for a returned item in literally ripped apart packaging though sitting on the shelf, I gave in because it was the last unit.



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  # 914494 13-Oct-2013 22:54
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michaelmurfy:
I've worked for 5 major retailers, and even for major faults you always had to send the product away, what you call a major fault might be in fact minor and if there was a major fault you still shouldn't have thrown the box away, the retailer still has the right to send it off for a repair and if they can't repair it then they can offer a replacement or a refund. Else you'll be getting all customers saying they've got a major fault.

The retailer still has to repair the unit, they've paid for it to sell, but nobody will buy a unit that has no box. If you had the box it'll be fine but without a box they make a loss from an unsellable product or a product they have to sell below cost due to the fact it doesn't have a box.

Would you pay full price for a product that's clearly used and doesn't have a box?



In my opinion, a printer not printing is a serious fault , even if it is a 1 cent part causing the issue. 

You worked for 5 major retailers so I would think you received a lot of training about the CGA. So, interested in your opinion on the following description of the CGA legislation...

**********
If the fault is serious
When the fault is serious, cannot be repaired or causes a safety risk then the consumer has the choice to:
get their money back
get a replacement
keep the goods but get some of their money back in compensation 
*************

And, the definition of a serious fault...

*********
What is a serious fault?
Under the Act a serious problem is any case where:
a reasonable consumer would not have bought the goods if they had known the nature and extent of the fault
***********

I just don't see that your description is compliant with the CGA law. 

Maybe I am wrong , but, nothing you have said has convinced me yet. 

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  # 914496 13-Oct-2013 22:58
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surfisup1000:
michaelmurfy:
I've worked for 5 major retailers, and even for major faults you always had to send the product away, what you call a major fault might be in fact minor and if there was a major fault you still shouldn't have thrown the box away, the retailer still has the right to send it off for a repair and if they can't repair it then they can offer a replacement or a refund. Else you'll be getting all customers saying they've got a major fault.

The retailer still has to repair the unit, they've paid for it to sell, but nobody will buy a unit that has no box. If you had the box it'll be fine but without a box they make a loss from an unsellable product or a product they have to sell below cost due to the fact it doesn't have a box.

Would you pay full price for a product that's clearly used and doesn't have a box?



In my opinion, a printer not printing is a serious fault , even if it is a 1 cent part causing the issue. 

You worked for 5 major retailers so I would think you received a lot of training about the CGA. So, interested in your opinion on the following description of the CGA legislation...

**********
If the fault is serious
When the fault is serious, cannot be repaired or causes a safety risk then the consumer has the choice to:
get their money back
get a replacement
keep the goods but get some of their money back in compensation 
*************

And, the definition of a serious fault...

*********
What is a serious fault?
Under the Act a serious problem is any case where:
a reasonable consumer would not have bought the goods if they had known the nature and extent of the fault
***********

I just don't see that your description is compliant with the CGA law. 

Maybe I am wrong , but, nothing you have said has convinced me yet. 

By your interpretation, any fault is a serious fault. No one would buy anything if it had anything wrong with it. Things go wrong, parts break, doesn't make it a serious fault.

 
 
 
 


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  # 914497 13-Oct-2013 23:02
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michaelmurfy:
surfisup1000: 

Sorry, I have to correct you as your knowledge of the law is quite wrong. 

For major faults, they must give the option of replacing/refund for major faults (and this was major). 

Why would they try to resell a faulty unit anyway?


I've worked for 5 major retailers, and even for major faults you always had to send the product away, what you call a major fault might be in fact minor and if there was a major fault you still shouldn't have thrown the box away, the retailer still has the right to send it off for a repair and if they can't repair it then they can offer a replacement or a refund. Else you'll be getting all customers saying they've got a major fault.

The retailer still has to repair the unit, they've paid for it to sell, but nobody will buy a unit that has no box. If you had the box it'll be fine but without a box they make a loss from an unsellable product or a product they have to sell below cost due to the fact it doesn't have a box.

Would you pay full price for a product that's clearly used and doesn't have a box?


It it is a substantial problem, then the retailer should get a credit back from their supplier. Although it obviously needs accessing first. The thing is if they have to issue a refund for a product that is 6 months old, due to a substantial failure, and the consumer has decided to opt for a refund (under the CGA), the owner would unlikely have the box still. But you can't access without sending it away. The retailers is the middleman between the supplier/manufacurer and the customer. If the supplier/manufacturer will only repair it for the retailer, then if I was the retailer I wouldn't be happy with the supplier and the way they treat their retailers, and I would stop selling that brand. But that is really between the retailer and the supplier.
With the OP, they should have kept the box as it was a brand new product, and there is always a risk with any productthat it will die in the first few days, or DOA. Normally what a retailer would do if the box wasn't kept, is they would do a straight swap, but if they didn't have any other products the the buyer has disposed of the packaging, that is a bit of an odd situation.  Packing does have a value anyway, a box and packing may have a $5 cost to it.

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  # 914498 13-Oct-2013 23:02
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The issue of original packaging is interesting issue, its usually so they can ship the item away for repairs, or resell the item.

You can push the fact that you don't have the packaging but expect a fight.




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  # 914499 13-Oct-2013 23:05
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bazzer: 
By your interpretation, any fault is a serious fault. No one would buy anything if it had anything wrong with it. Things go wrong, parts break, doesn't make it a serious fault.


Not the case. The other user should have fully quoted the website he is referring to (http://www.consumeraffairs.govt.nz/for-business/compliance/consumer-guarantees-act-1/providing-remedies-for-goods).

What a serious fault is, is if something goes wrong that wouldn't "normally" go wrong within a certain time frame.

Quote from site:

 

What is a serious fault?

 

Under the Act a serious problem is any case where:

 

  • a reasonable consumer would not have bought the goods if they had known the nature and extent of the fault
Example: a consumer is unlikely to buy a new washing machine if they know the motor will burn out after three months 

Say if you bought a new car and the break pads were worn out within 1 week. That would be a "serious fault" as the brake pads shouldn't have worn out that fast. However if the brake pads had worn out after 10 months then it wouldn't be a "serious fault" as this is "expected".

-Aidan.



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  # 914500 13-Oct-2013 23:07
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Under "surfisup1000"'s original reference the OP is entitled to a refund under CGA, regardless.

-Aidan.

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  # 914506 14-Oct-2013 00:05
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AidanS: Under "surfisup1000"'s original reference the OP is entitled to a refund under CGA, regardless.

-Aidan.


Although the retailer is entitled to find out what teh problem is first. I am not a fan of DSE at all, and have had my own problems with them. But they are entitled to get a tech to look at it to see what the problem is prior to issuing a refund, incase the fault was caused by the buyer, or it wasn't a basic problem, like a piece of packaging still inside the printer (I have seen this happen before)

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  # 914513 14-Oct-2013 00:42
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Retailer can choose to repair/send back to manufacturer (they don't have to give you a refund), if they offer refund on condition of you returning all the packaging then that is nice of them and if you want a refund you should comply.




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  # 914518 14-Oct-2013 06:11
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Surely a replacement or refund is warranted if it can be proven that the item is indeed faulty. To find out if is it faulty then it needs to be assessed, if that requires sending it away then the best way to do that is in the packaging it came with. Now why would anyone want to choose to have an argument over a policy about packaging. It makes sense to keep it for at least a little while and just think of all the angst you could have avoided over just returning it in the packaging. There maybe legislation on your side but is all this stress worth getting cancer over?

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  # 914520 14-Oct-2013 06:34
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kiwijunglist: Retailer can choose to repair/send back to manufacturer (they don't have to give you a refund), if they offer refund on condition of you returning all the packaging then that is nice of them and if you want a refund you should comply.


Retailer can choose to send it away for repair, but this is the point where you tell the retailer that you will reject the repaired goods as you set out to buy a new item, not a repaired item.

At this point some common sense from the retailer may set in, if they still insist let them send it in, arm youself with copies of the relevent CGA and when it arrives back give them that along with a bill for the extra trip, hey it's an extra cost that the retailer created so they are liable for it.

Stick to your guns the retailer will try to get out of it, but this is why you pay retail so when there is a problem it gets sorted out.

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