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3594 posts

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  # 915013 14-Oct-2013 20:15
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The product line has been reduced in order to make the books look better, in time for their private equity owners to sell them off. I don't believe the issue with the printer is a result of the pending sale, however. I believe it has more to do with poor education of the shop staff.

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  # 915053 14-Oct-2013 21:32
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repair replace refund




gz ftw


 
 
 
 


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  # 915054 14-Oct-2013 21:34
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insane: I worked at DSE for three years (many years ago), we happily did exchanges for faulty items within the first month, and full refunds no questions within 7-ish days with full packaging.

If no packaging or some parts were missing during an exchange, we just switched the parts they needed.

Never had any problem sending said parts back to HO/Service, and our customers always commented on how much easier it was to deal with us vs HN, NL, B&B etc.

Perhaps things have changed now that there is no NZ Head Office






Same here, in this case we would keep the original box etc and just swap printer for printer. that way the store still has a complete set up in box ready to ship back to service




gz ftw


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  # 915227 15-Oct-2013 09:16
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I have no idea what the law says about whether you need to give them the boxes or not.

On a wider note, it disappoints me that NZ retailers have not grasped, unlike US retailers or UK retailers, that the CGA is a MINIMUM requirement and that it is a sensible and sane policy to differentiate yourself by offering MORE than that in terms of warranty policy and being very public about it.

Compare the typical NZ retailer with say US retailer Zappos which allows a 365 day return period, or UK retailer John Lewis which allows never ending returns - you can return something you purchased 10 years ago and, specifically "The state of the packaging is not an issue, as long as the product itself is in good condition."  





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  # 915234 15-Oct-2013 09:29
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UK retailer John Lewis http://www.johnlewis.com/customer-services/information-about-ordering-and-returning-products

"We want you to be happy with your purchase. If you're not, just return the products to us or to one of our shops. Unless faulty, we'd like this to be within 90 days of purchase."

"It's important that any unwanted item, unless faulty, is returned in a re-saleable condition. We'd expect this to mean that you've kept all original packaging and labels, and that it's undamaged and unused"


I agree about striving to do better than the minimum though.




Location: Dunedin

 


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Ultimate Geek


  # 915236 15-Oct-2013 09:37
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andrewNZ:Whether it is a substantial/szerious fault or not, can only be established by having it looked at, "won't print" is a symptom not a fault. As has been said, it could easily be due to user error or improper setup, like as not removing all the weird little packing clips and holders, or plugging the USB lead into the Ethernet port (I've seen that one a few times).

Until the actual fault has been established, it's a basic return and requires packaging.


Why should the customer be penalised because nobody in a DSE retail outlet can troubleshoot basic setup problems without returning to the supplier.  What's their excuse?  Lack of computers to test with?  Lack of staff skilled in basic printer setup?

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  # 915244 15-Oct-2013 09:47
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andrewNZ: UK retailer John Lewis http://www.johnlewis.com/customer-services/information-about-ordering-and-returning-products

"We want you to be happy with your purchase. If you're not, just return the products to us or to one of our shops. Unless faulty, we'd like this to be within 90 days of purchase."

"It's important that any unwanted item, unless faulty, is returned in a re-saleable condition. We'd expect this to mean that you've kept all original packaging and labels, and that it's undamaged and unused"


I agree about striving to do better than the minimum though.


However, to compare to OP, this means that John Lewis would not have required the packaging.

Also, "we'd like this to be within 90 days" does not mean they won't accept it if it is not. My father died in January and my mother found some shirts he had bought from JL 18 months previously. They accepted them and refunded her with no questions at all.





 
 
 
 


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  # 915260 15-Oct-2013 10:18
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hashbrown:
andrewNZ:Whether it is a substantial/szerious fault or not, can only be established by having it looked at, "won't print" is a symptom not a fault. As has been said, it could easily be due to user error or improper setup, like as not removing all the weird little packing clips and holders, or plugging the USB lead into the Ethernet port (I've seen that one a few times).

Until the actual fault has been established, it's a basic return and requires packaging.


Why should the customer be penalised because nobody in a DSE retail outlet can troubleshoot basic setup problems without returning to the supplier.  What's their excuse?  Lack of computers to test with?  Lack of staff skilled in basic printer setup?


Look, it sucks when products fail, but products fail for many different reasons. Yes, customer's have legal rights, but so do retailers. 

I don't expect or even want a non skilled sales person to tell me whether a fault is serious or not. More often than not, sales staff have no clue about the products they are selling.
Do you really want to walk away with a product that magically started working again after someone untrained had a fiddle with it. In my experience, those products normally fail again in exactly the same way, and often outside the warranty period. In some cases, you could even be walking away with an unsafe product.

I don't expect every store to have an expert on every product sold, on site, every day. That would significantly increase their costs, and would inevitably affect product pricing.

I expect the retailer to seek an expert opinion on the issue, and I don't mind if they directly of indirectly employ that person. 




Location: Dunedin

 


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Ultimate Geek


  # 915272 15-Oct-2013 10:38
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andrewNZ:
hashbrown:
andrewNZ:Whether it is a substantial/szerious fault or not, can only be established by having it looked at, "won't print" is a symptom not a fault. As has been said, it could easily be due to user error or improper setup, like as not removing all the weird little packing clips and holders, or plugging the USB lead into the Ethernet port (I've seen that one a few times).

Until the actual fault has been established, it's a basic return and requires packaging.


Why should the customer be penalised because nobody in a DSE retail outlet can troubleshoot basic setup problems without returning to the supplier.  What's their excuse?  Lack of computers to test with?  Lack of staff skilled in basic printer setup?


Look, it sucks when products fail, but products fail for many different reasons. Yes, customer's have legal rights, but so do retailers. 

I don't expect or even want a non skilled sales person to tell me whether a fault is serious or not. More often than not, sales staff have no clue about the products they are selling.
Do you really want to walk away with a product that magically started working again after someone untrained had a fiddle with it. In my experience, those products normally fail again in exactly the same way, and often outside the warranty period. In some cases, you could even be walking away with an unsafe product.

I don't expect every store to have an expert on every product sold, on site, every day. That would significantly increase their costs, and would inevitably affect product pricing.

I expect the retailer to seek an expert opinion on the issue, and I don't mind if they directly of indirectly employ that person. 


Come on.  You gave examples of someone plugging USB into and Ethernet port and not removing all packaging as common faults.  Surely a "Techspert" can troubleshoot those.

I'm hearing a lot about retailers problems with their suppliers/staff, and not a lot of good justification why those should then become the consumers problems.

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Uber Geek


  # 915312 15-Oct-2013 11:51
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hashbrown:

Come on. You gave examples of someone plugging USB into and Ethernet port and not removing all packaging as common faults. Surely a "Techspert" can troubleshoot those.

I'm hearing a lot about retailers problems with their suppliers/staff, and not a lot of good justification why those should then become the consumers problems.


I did. I stand firmly by my opinion.

A "Techspert" may or may not be able to troubleshoot those issues. You can't tell where a customer plugged in a cable, and they'll swear black and blue they did it right. If you insist they screwed up and send them on their way, they'll invoke the CGA and think they have a right to an instant refund. THEY DON'T.

A "Techspert" not solving an issue does not instantly make the issue a serious fault, it makes it an unknown fault, which can still just as easily be user error. Until the problem or fault is identified, it can't be termed major or minor.


I'll give you an example of why I don't think in store staff "experts" should be troubleshooting issues.
A long time ago, my family purchased a good VCR, for a fairly hefty price. The device developed tracking problems, and so we took it back.
The "technician" in the shop tinkered with it and made it work, said it wasn't a tracking problem, and it was fixed. We took it home, and the problem came back a few months later, so we took it back again. The "technician" in the shop tinkered with it and made it work, said it wasn't a tracking problem, and it was fixed...
This went on forever, the problem was never solved, and the VCR was eventually dumped.
Talking to a professional some years later, we discovered that there was a known issue with the tracking circuit in those devices that would have been fixed if the guy in the shop just asked the manufacturer, or any expert.


In the OP's case, the retailer acted in good faith and offered an immediate refund if the original packaging could be supplied.
This gives the customer the refund they want, so they can purchase a new printer, and it gives the retailer the option of reselling the product if it turns out to be user error or a minor fault.




Location: Dunedin

 


463 posts

Ultimate Geek


  # 915315 15-Oct-2013 12:00
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andrewNZ:

I did. I stand firmly by my opinion.

A "Techspert" may or may not be able to troubleshoot those issues. You can't tell where a customer plugged in a cable, and they'll swear black and blue they did it right. If you insist they screwed up and send them on their way, they'll invoke the CGA and think they have a right to an instant refund. THEY DON'T.

A "Techspert" not solving an issue does not instantly make the issue a serious fault, it makes it an unknown fault, which can still just as easily be user error. Until the problem or fault is identified, it can't be termed major or minor.


I'll give you an example of why I don't think in store staff "experts" should be troubleshooting issues.
A long time ago, my family purchased a good VCR, for a fairly hefty price. The device developed tracking problems, and so we took it back.
The "technician" in the shop tinkered with it and made it work, said it wasn't a tracking problem, and it was fixed. We took it home, and the problem came back a few months later, so we took it back again. The "technician" in the shop tinkered with it and made it work, said it wasn't a tracking problem, and it was fixed...
This went on forever, the problem was never solved, and the VCR was eventually dumped.
Talking to a professional some years later, we discovered that there was a known issue with the tracking circuit in those devices that would have been fixed if the guy in the shop just asked the manufacturer, or any expert.


In the OP's case, the retailer acted in good faith and offered an immediate refund if the original packaging could be supplied.
This gives the customer the refund they want, so they can purchase a new printer, and it gives the retailer the option of reselling the product if it turns out to be user error or a minor fault.


I'm not talking about taking a screwdriver to the device here.

OP says printer can't print.
Techspert plugs printer into store PC and it either prints or it doesn't.  Why is that rocket science?

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  # 915324 15-Oct-2013 12:19
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andrewNZ: I'll give you an example of why I don't think in store staff "experts" should be troubleshooting issues.
A long time ago, my family purchased a good VCR, for a fairly hefty price. The device developed tracking problems, and so we took it back.
The "technician" in the shop tinkered with it and made it work, said it wasn't a tracking problem, and it was fixed. We took it home, and the problem came back a few months later, so we took it back again. The "technician" in the shop tinkered with it and made it work, said it wasn't a tracking problem, and it was fixed...
This went on forever, the problem was never solved, and the VCR was eventually dumped.
Talking to a professional some years later, we discovered that there was a known issue with the tracking circuit in those devices that would have been fixed if the guy in the shop just asked the manufacturer, or any expert.



Good story but it ignores the fact that "known issues" can take forever to acknowledged by the manufacturer.

I have taken faulty items back with evidence that the problem was identified in other markets and the service agents here still pretend surprise.

2130 posts

Uber Geek


  # 915330 15-Oct-2013 12:29
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No one claims it's rocket science.

Let's look at the possibilities
Printer works - Customer takes it home again one of three things happen:
1. Printer works, customer is happy. Good result.
2. Printer works, customer doesn't believe the problem is fixed. Customer is unhappy. Bad result.
3. Printer doesn't work, customer is VERY unhappy. Fault type is STILL unknown, so the printer still needs to be sent away to be assessed/repaired. At this point, you can offer a swap, refund, or send it for repair. The customer thinks you should have done it from the start. Bad result.

Printer doesn't work. Fault type is STILL unknown, so the printer still needs to be sent away to be assessed/repaired. At this point, you can offer a swap, refund, or send it for repair.


I get it, you don't like DSE. That doesn't make what happened wrong.
No matter how you look at it, the retailer took quite reasonable steps to make the customer happy.




Location: Dunedin

 




4369 posts

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  # 915333 15-Oct-2013 12:32
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hashbrown: 
I'm not talking about taking a screwdriver to the device here.

OP says printer can't print.
Techspert plugs printer into store PC and it either prints or it doesn't.  Why is that rocket science?


Well, it did 'kind' of print. But, it would 'smear' the black text so that it was unreadable, or, it would print 'blanks' -- only black was affected, other colours were just fine. 

I reckon the print head was damaged. Some printers include the print head on the cartridge - this didn't. 

[edit] we did all of the troubleshooting steps from epson such as nozzle / head cleaning. No luck.





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Ultimate Geek


  # 915340 15-Oct-2013 12:41
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andrewNZ: I don't expect every store to have an expert on every product sold, on site, every day. That would significantly increase their costs, and would inevitably affect product pricing. 


As someone that works for a tech retail chain, this does get annoying at times. I'm sorry but I don't know the answer to your pretty specific question and neither does anyone else working. I might go and "ask them" to satisfy you but I already know the end result

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