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2130 posts

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  # 915341 15-Oct-2013 12:41
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Bung:
andrewNZ: I'll give you an example of why I don't think in store staff "experts" should be troubleshooting issues.
A long time ago, my family purchased a good VCR, for a fairly hefty price. The device developed tracking problems, and so we took it back.
The "technician" in the shop tinkered with it and made it work, said it wasn't a tracking problem, and it was fixed. We took it home, and the problem came back a few months later, so we took it back again. The "technician" in the shop tinkered with it and made it work, said it wasn't a tracking problem, and it was fixed...
This went on forever, the problem was never solved, and the VCR was eventually dumped.
Talking to a professional some years later, we discovered that there was a known issue with the tracking circuit in those devices that would have been fixed if the guy in the shop just asked the manufacturer, or any expert.



Good story but it ignores the fact that "known issues" can take forever to acknowledged by the manufacturer.

I have taken faulty items back with evidence that the problem was identified in other markets and the service agents here still pretend surprise.


In this case, the known issue was readily acknowledged by the manufacturer.

Times have changed, companies sell a LOT more devices (which usually aren't repairable) at a much lower margin and so they are less inclined to throw money at a problem they don't have to. Also you have places like Brightpoint, who I'm pretty sure are/were defrauding customers, but that's another story.

I still trust a professional more than sales staff.




Location: Dunedin

 


463 posts

Ultimate Geek


  # 915343 15-Oct-2013 12:44
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andrewNZ: No one claims it's rocket science.

Let's look at the possibilities
Printer works - Customer takes it home again one of three things happen:
1. Printer works, customer is happy. Good result.
2. Printer works, customer doesn't believe the problem is fixed. Customer is unhappy. Bad result.
3. Printer doesn't work, customer is VERY unhappy. Fault type is STILL unknown, so the printer still needs to be sent away to be assessed/repaired. At this point, you can offer a swap, refund, or send it for repair. The customer thinks you should have done it from the start. Bad result.

Printer doesn't work. Fault type is STILL unknown, so the printer still needs to be sent away to be assessed/repaired. At this point, you can offer a swap, refund, or send it for repair.


I get it, you don't like DSE. That doesn't make what happened wrong.
No matter how you look at it, the retailer took quite reasonable steps to make the customer happy.


I don't have a problem with DSE and buy stuff from them regularly.

I have a problem with a policy that requires me to store something of no value to me on the off-chance a device I bought in good faith breaks down through no fault of my own.  At that point not only will I be without the item I paid for and have probably wasted several hours on pointless troubleshooting. But I now need to make a possibly inconvenient trip to a store only to be told I'll have to wait while it is shipped off to be inspected.  And that doesn't make me VERY happy in any scenario.

*Edit* BTW I don't follow option 3.  Printer doesn't work.  Swap for new one.  Customer VERY happy.  Sort it out with the supplier on your own time.


 
 
 
 


827 posts

Ultimate Geek


  # 915363 15-Oct-2013 12:55
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hashbrown: *Edit* BTW I don't follow option 3.  Printer doesn't work.  Swap for new one.  Customer VERY happy.  Sort it out with the supplier on your own time.


And then if it was a user created fault (USB cable > ethernet as has been mentioned) then why should the retailer take the loss while the customer walks out with a brand new unit?

Anything of value has a DOA period of 7 days generally, after that it has to be sent away to be assessed

2130 posts

Uber Geek


  # 915371 15-Oct-2013 13:06
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hashbrown: I don't follow option 3. Printer doesn't work. Swap for new one. Customer VERY happy. Sort it out with the supplier on your own time.



If they send me away with a faulty product that they think is fine, I am not happy, I'm thoroughly P'd off.


It could be swapped if the retailer feels that way inclined. BUT the packaging is STILL required, if the fault is minor or non existent and the product needs to be resealable.




Location: Dunedin

 


463 posts

Ultimate Geek


  # 915375 15-Oct-2013 13:10
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P1n3apqlExpr3ss:
hashbrown: *Edit* BTW I don't follow option 3.  Printer doesn't work.  Swap for new one.  Customer VERY happy.  Sort it out with the supplier on your own time.


And then if it was a user created fault (USB cable > ethernet as has been mentioned) then why should the retailer take the loss while the customer walks out with a brand new unit?

Anything of value has a DOA period of 7 days generally, after that it has to be sent away to be assessed


Somehow I knew we'd end up here.  The policy exists then, so customers can be treated as incompetent liars.  Surprised you didn't raise people with buyers remorse deliberately damaging products so they can get a refund.

If that's the type of retailer you need to be, so be it.  Just don't expect your honest customers to love you for it.

Banana?
4855 posts

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  # 915397 15-Oct-2013 13:21
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Slightly off topic, but not completely:

Printers are a nightmare. Most of them are manufactured down to a price (a lot retail between $50 and $100). For that the consumer expects a device with a lot of moving parts to survive a reasonable amount of time.

For me, a reasonable amount of time for a cheap inkjet printer would probably be about 4 or 5 cartridge changes (because by then, you have actually spent a lot more on the ink than the printer). Not a fixed amount of time.

Unfortunately, you get people buying these things and then taking them home and expecting them to run like a commercial printer, and demanding they be replaced or fixed after they have printed out a thousand invoices in a month. (Admittedly, most people who buy a $50 printer only use it occasionally, and the printers do last them a reasonable amount of time).

I am just surprised that HP, Canon, Brother, Epson et al. bother selling these cheap printers here - they must have a bit of backend in them for the high number of returns (comparatively) they must get. I know the retailers do not make a huge amount off the 'price-fighter' printers.

463 posts

Ultimate Geek


  # 915398 15-Oct-2013 13:22
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andrewNZ: the packaging is STILL required


Required by who?  Your supplier?  Your problem.

If packaging is a valuable commodity, I'll happily take $5 off my next purchase if I can leave the packaging in store.  Although I'm not sure I'd be happy knowing the product I just bought was one you expected people to be returning.

If your business model is to sell products at such a high defect rate that the logistics of returns shipping become a major issue, that is a problem with YOUR business model.  Again, why is this the consumers problem?

 
 
 
 


15162 posts

Uber Geek


  # 915400 15-Oct-2013 13:23
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P1n3apqlExpr3ss:
hashbrown: *Edit* BTW I don't follow option 3.  Printer doesn't work.  Swap for new one.  Customer VERY happy.  Sort it out with the supplier on your own time.


And then if it was a user created fault (USB cable > ethernet as has been mentioned) then why should the retailer take the loss while the customer walks out with a brand new unit?

Anything of value has a DOA period of 7 days generally, after that it has to be sent away to be assessed


Thats where the retailer should check it instore, prior to sending it away. But many retailers I have found don't know the products they actually sell, so have little technical knowledge on how to use the device, let alone test it. They willoften tell you to know the manufacturers 0800 number for support.

13321 posts

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  # 915401 15-Oct-2013 13:24
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trig42: Slightly off topic, but not completely:

Printers are a nightmare. Most of them are manufactured down to a price (a lot retail between $50 and $100). For that the consumer expects a device with a lot of moving parts to survive a reasonable amount of time.

For me, a reasonable amount of time for a cheap inkjet printer would probably be about 4 or 5 cartridge changes (because by then, you have actually spent a lot more on the ink than the printer). Not a fixed amount of time.

Unfortunately, you get people buying these things and then taking them home and expecting them to run like a commercial printer, and demanding they be replaced or fixed after they have printed out a thousand invoices in a month. (Admittedly, most people who buy a $50 printer only use it occasionally, and the printers do last them a reasonable amount of time).

I am just surprised that HP, Canon, Brother, Epson et al. bother selling these cheap printers here - they must have a bit of backend in them for the high number of returns (comparatively) they must get. I know the retailers do not make a huge amount off the 'price-fighter' printers.


Never any shortage of people to buy cheap junk.





2130 posts

Uber Geek


  # 915403 15-Oct-2013 13:27
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hashbrown:
andrewNZ: the packaging is STILL required


Required by who?  Your supplier?  Your problem.

If packaging is a valuable commodity, I'll happily take $5 off my next purchase if I can leave the packaging in store.  Although I'm not sure I'd be happy knowing the product I just bought was one you expected people to be returning.

If your business model is to sell products at such a high defect rate that the logistics of returns shipping become a major issue, that is a problem with YOUR business model.  Again, why is this the consumers problem?


OH FFS, THE PRODUCT MUST BE RESALABLE IF NO FAULT EXISTS.




Location: Dunedin

 


13321 posts

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  # 915409 15-Oct-2013 13:29
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I think it is pretty simple.

Faulty product? Replace on the spot, no questions asked. THAT is a warranty.

EG Snap On tools. I used a wrench as a pry bar once to get a starter motor of a tractor. It broke.

Snap On man came to the farm every week so next time he was round I showed him the spanner bits. He apologised, threw it in the bin in his van and gave me a new one.

Companies that offer that sort of support get my dollars every time even if it costs more. I actively look for them.





15162 posts

Uber Geek


  # 915410 15-Oct-2013 13:29
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trig42: Slightly off topic, but not completely:

Printers are a nightmare. Most of them are manufactured down to a price (a lot retail between $50 and $100). For that the consumer expects a device with a lot of moving parts to survive a reasonable amount of time.

For me, a reasonable amount of time for a cheap inkjet printer would probably be about 4 or 5 cartridge changes (because by then, you have actually spent a lot more on the ink than the printer). Not a fixed amount of time.

Unfortunately, you get people buying these things and then taking them home and expecting them to run like a commercial printer, and demanding they be replaced or fixed after they have printed out a thousand invoices in a month. (Admittedly, most people who buy a $50 printer only use it occasionally, and the printers do last them a reasonable amount of time).

I am just surprised that HP, Canon, Brother, Epson et al. bother selling these cheap printers here - they must have a bit of backend in them for the high number of returns (comparatively) they must get. I know the retailers do not make a huge amount off the 'price-fighter' printers.


I have found the cheap ones also waste a huge amount of ink. I have one that had multi cartiridges. When You change one of the colours, and it has to do a full head clean, which then emptied about 1/4 of the ink from the cartridge. You are lucky if you get 10 photos out of a cartridge. It is such a waste of money, that I don't even bother with inkjets anymore.

827 posts

Ultimate Geek


  # 915416 15-Oct-2013 13:39
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mattwnz:
P1n3apqlExpr3ss:
hashbrown: *Edit* BTW I don't follow option 3.  Printer doesn't work.  Swap for new one.  Customer VERY happy.  Sort it out with the supplier on your own time.


And then if it was a user created fault (USB cable > ethernet as has been mentioned) then why should the retailer take the loss while the customer walks out with a brand new unit?

Anything of value has a DOA period of 7 days generally, after that it has to be sent away to be assessed


Thats where the retailer should check it instore, prior to sending it away. But many retailers I have found don't know the products they actually sell, so have little technical knowledge on how to use the device, let alone test it. They willoften tell you to know the manufacturers 0800 number for support.


Yup, we'll check and verify the fault that they're claiming, even if it is just booting it up and indeed seeing its stuck in a boot loop or whatever it may be. If it seems like a simple sub 10mins fix I'll help them out but other than that it can go off to the suppliers. It's honestly not worth the time when it's busy (other customers waiting longer to be server, getting annoyed) and 95% of customers seem to be pretty accepting that it's going to be gone for a couple weeks anyway

2130 posts

Uber Geek


  # 915426 15-Oct-2013 13:43
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Geektastic: I think it is pretty simple.

Faulty product? Replace on the spot, no questions asked. THAT is a warranty.

EG Snap On tools. I used a wrench as a pry bar once to get a starter motor of a tractor. It broke.

Snap On man came to the farm every week so next time he was round I showed him the spanner bits. He apologised, threw it in the bin in his van and gave me a new one.

Companies that offer that sort of support get my dollars every time even if it costs more. I actively look for them.


Agreed, that's the level of service I like, but you pay for that level of service. You wouldn't expect the same response from Fuller, Toptul or Kingtony.

In this instance we're talking fairly low end stuff, in a very competitive market.




Location: Dunedin

 




4369 posts

Uber Geek


  # 915435 15-Oct-2013 14:01
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Oh, I'm not having a good time with dick smith stuff lately.

Now, my DSE USB power adapter has nearly caught on fire.

Unfortunately I don't have the original packaging :) I'll just bin and forget I think.

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