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463 posts

Ultimate Geek


  # 915436 15-Oct-2013 14:01
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andrewNZ:OH FFS, THE PRODUCT MUST BE RESALABLE IF NO FAULT EXISTS.


So you inconvenience your honest competent customers returning faulty goods because of the numpties returning no fault products.

As I said, don't expect your honest customers to love you for it.

15162 posts

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  # 915438 15-Oct-2013 14:04
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surfisup1000: Oh, I'm not having a good time with dick smith stuff lately.

Now, my DSE USB power adapter has nearly caught on fire.

Unfortunately I don't have the original packaging :) I'll just bin and forget I think.


Really??? You should report that to the authorities, as if it is a fire risk, they will want to know, and it may require a recall.

 
 
 
 


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Vocus

  # 915444 15-Oct-2013 14:15
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IMO, this thread is making a mountain out of a molehill.

If you're returning something off the bat, then take the packaging.  Simple.  Fair.  The law doesn't really come into it.  Sure they "should" take it back if it truly is faulty but - how do you know for sure it's faulty? How does the shop know? It's kind of a grey area. At least if you take the packaging they can easily ship it away for fault finding, and if NFF, hope to resell it.  Surely you would keep the packaging around AT LEAST until you've fired something up once to see it works.  It just makes sense.



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Uber Geek


  # 915450 15-Oct-2013 14:24
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mattwnz:
surfisup1000: Oh, I'm not having a good time with dick smith stuff lately.

Now, my DSE USB power adapter has nearly caught on fire.

Unfortunately I don't have the original packaging :) I'll just bin and forget I think.


Really??? You should report that to the authorities, as if it is a fire risk, they will want to know, and it may require a recall.


I'll give dse a quick call to let them know. 

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  # 915464 15-Oct-2013 14:46
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surfisup1000:
mattwnz:
surfisup1000: Oh, I'm not having a good time with dick smith stuff lately.

Now, my DSE USB power adapter has nearly caught on fire.

Unfortunately I don't have the original packaging :) I'll just bin and forget I think.


Really??? You should report that to the authorities, as if it is a fire risk, they will want to know, and it may require a recall.


I'll give dse a quick call to let them know. 


To be fair, if you call a store,  frontline retail staff may not know how to deal with that sort of thing. You may need to report it to consumer affairs to look into consumeraffairs.govt.nz . It would be terrible if one did actually cause a fire due to a fault in it.

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  # 915668 15-Oct-2013 19:19
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hashbrown:
andrewNZ:OH FFS, THE PRODUCT MUST BE RESALABLE IF NO FAULT EXISTS.


So you inconvenience your honest competent customers returning faulty goods because of the numpties returning no fault products.

As I said, don't expect your honest customers to love you for it.


I used to ride mountain bikes a lot, and a pretty decent helmet manufacturer had a policy that stated:
"Crash while wearing this helmet, and we'll offer a half price upgrade to a new replacement from our company".

BRILLIANT!
It ensured people wore helmets, and if they were damaged in a crash, they stopped wearing them, and moved into a new one.
However, people took advantage of this, and after 10-12 months, they would 'fall off' their bike... with a hammer.
Meaning that helmet 'failure' went through the roof, many of which were inflicted by riders wanting to get a new bit of kit.
Sadly, buyers are liars, heck, even users of this site promote other users to go into stores and lie about the price of the product in other stores in order to get a better deal...
I (sadly) believe that people don't see anything wrong with this behaviour, and yes, those who are innocent pay for it.

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  # 916097 16-Oct-2013 15:07
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johnr: Why you would take it back 1 day after purchase without the packaging is beyond me


Before I bite at this I will say that I too keep all my packaging for newly purchased items just in case I have to return them for whatever reason.

But why should I have to store the box? (unless I return the item because I change my mind which is a totally different kettle of fish which I don't totally agree with anyway)

If an item is faulty, then I should be able to return the item along with the rest of the parts it came with (power cord etc) and have the issue rectified.  If it was faulty out of the box then I would expect a brand new replacement.

I don't feel your personal dig with your comment was particularly helpful.  I took your comment to basically say that people who don't keep the packaging after at least one day of purchase are stupid.

 
 
 
 


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Uber Geek


  # 916100 16-Oct-2013 15:10
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johnr: Put yourself in the retailers shoes


Put yourself in the consumers shoes.  Came in to buy a brand new item, took it home, and it did not work.  Sure the retailer has the expense of sending it back to wherever, but the consumer bears an expense to returning it too (travel and parking expenses, time etc).

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  # 916104 16-Oct-2013 15:13
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michaelmurfy: They can issue you with a replacement, or send it off for repair. They don't have to give you a refund on something they can't resell.

If you sold this printer to somebody and they returned it with a fault and demanded their money back, do you think you'd send it to the repair agent for a repair or take the printer and bin it since you can't resell it taking a loss in the process?


I would expect to take it back to the supplier I got it from as they sold me as the retailer a faulty product.  Maybe that's not how it works in the real world, but that would be my expectation.  Why should the retailer have to be disadvantaged where the manufacture of a product was not correct? (yes it could have been damaged in transit but you get my point).

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  # 916108 16-Oct-2013 15:18
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michaelmurfy:
surfisup1000: 

Sorry, I have to correct you as your knowledge of the law is quite wrong. 

For major faults, they must give the option of replacing/refund for major faults (and this was major). 

Why would they try to resell a faulty unit anyway?


I've worked for 5 major retailers, and even for major faults you always had to send the product away, what you call a major fault might be in fact minor and if there was a major fault you still shouldn't have thrown the box away, the retailer still has the right to send it off for a repair and if they can't repair it then they can offer a replacement or a refund. Else you'll be getting all customers saying they've got a major fault.

The retailer still has to repair the unit, they've paid for it to sell, but nobody will buy a unit that has no box. If you had the box it'll be fine but without a box they make a loss from an unsellable product or a product they have to sell below cost due to the fact it doesn't have a box.

Would you pay full price for a product that's clearly used and doesn't have a box?


Would you (want to) pay full price for a faulty product which has been repaired?  Especially for a product which you could most likely tell the box had been opened already?  I certainly wouldn't.

Also would you be a repeat shopper at a retailer who sold you a faulty item, and you then had to return at your own expense and then wait days to get a new one?  I wouldn't.  Normally when I walk into a shop to buy something, I pretty much want or need it then.  If it is out of stock then I have the choice of either waiting or shopping elsewhere.  Under this scenario I would have no choice but to wait.

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  # 916120 16-Oct-2013 15:21
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bazzer: By your interpretation, any fault is a serious fault. No one would buy anything if it had anything wrong with it. Things go wrong, parts break, doesn't make it a serious fault.


Keep it in context.  We are talking about a faulty item out of the box here, not something which developed a fault over time.

An out of the box fault IS a serious fault in my mind.

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  # 916131 16-Oct-2013 15:26
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kiwijunglist: Retailer can choose to repair/send back to manufacturer (they don't have to give you a refund), if they offer refund on condition of you returning all the packaging then that is nice of them and if you want a refund you should comply.


A retailer can also chose whether or not they want to keep a customer.

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  # 916132 16-Oct-2013 15:28
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gregmcc:
kiwijunglist: Retailer can choose to repair/send back to manufacturer (they don't have to give you a refund), if they offer refund on condition of you returning all the packaging then that is nice of them and if you want a refund you should comply.


Retailer can choose to send it away for repair, but this is the point where you tell the retailer that you will reject the repaired goods as you set out to buy a new item, not a repaired item.

At this point some common sense from the retailer may set in, if they still insist let them send it in, arm youself with copies of the relevent CGA and when it arrives back give them that along with a bill for the extra trip, hey it's an extra cost that the retailer created so they are liable for it.

Stick to your guns the retailer will try to get out of it, but this is why you pay retail so when there is a problem it gets sorted out.


Sensible reply.  Couldn't agree more.

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  # 916142 16-Oct-2013 15:36
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I must say, I generally at least keep the packaging long enough to plug the item in and see if it works... if it's genuinely a major fault, you'll no doubt notice as soon as you try to use it ;)

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Uber Geek


  # 916143 16-Oct-2013 15:36
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KiwiNZ:
andrewNZ:
KiwiNZ: if it is a substantial fault then you are entitled to a refund under the Act. The act does not prescribe conditions concerning packaging.


surfisup1000:
Inphinity: 
"By law" they met their obligations by providing an offer of repair. 



I don't agree -- under the CGA, for serious faults, they must offer a refund.  Repair is not an option they can force on you. I'd think this is even more the case given the product is faulty out of the box. 

From consumer magazine...

"If the fault is serious When the fault is serious, cannot be repaired or causes a safety risk then the consumer has the choice to:

 

  • get their money back 
  • get a replacement 
  • keep the goods but get some of their money back in compensation.
"
 


Whether it is a substantial/szerious fault or not, can only be established by having it looked at, "won't print" is a symptom not a fault. As has been said, it could easily be due to user error or improper setup, like as not removing all the weird little packing clips and holders, or plugging the USB lead into the Ethernet port (I've seen that one a few times).

Until the actual fault has been established, it's a basic return and requires packaging.


That can be established with out the packaging. A policy cannot supersede statutory rights.  


And simple and superficial things like this should be able to be determined by the retailer on the spot.  Isn't this what retailers are for i.e service?  I'd think seriously about using a retailer again who didn't know the basic operations of a product I purchased from them.

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