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  Reply # 925345 1-Nov-2013 08:54
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it's a case of move with the times or be left behind, I can remember when Ballpoint pens were not allowed and parents moaned when fountain pens were replaced with them.




Mike
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  Reply # 925355 1-Nov-2013 09:04
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NZtechfreak:
alasta: Makes you wonder what sort of kickbacks the school is getting from Noel Leeming.


Indeed. I have little doubt this is like the deals schools are doing with uniform providers.

There will not be much of a kickback. Noels will get some sales, and they will be hoping for 'add-ons' (cases etc) to make some margin. They will be offering discounts to the school for future purchases, but they will already be offering them through their commercial arm anyway. All the retailers have a commercial arm, and schools are a major customer of them.

I'd imagine Noels will be doing the iPads at a slight discount, but there is only about $30 or $40 margin in a $779 iPad for Noel Leeming - nothing there for a kickback (I have worked for another retailer selling iPads to schools - there is no fat).

I agree BYOD for an 8 year old is fraught with problems - apart from the fact that the devices are expensive, and of marginal 'use' in school for an 8 year old (apart from being a digital babysitter), there are other issues.
When I was selling into schools, and talking with principals/board members, one of the big concerns that I would make them aware of (some already knew) was that you have a whole heap of young kids, identified by uniform usually, that the scumbags that we all know are around will target because they know they all have a highly desirable and resellable item in their schoolbags. That would worry me more as a parent than them having one of these devices at school.

There are some really innovative ways schools are utilizing iPads etc., and most schools do not restrict to one device (especially if they are using web-based rather than app-based learning). Schools cannot afford to purchase hundreds (or even 10s) of devices. Some have chosen BYOD, some are using suites. I know that in a lot of schools, a lot of planning and testing happens before they push the go button on these things. The iDevices can be quite well locked down with remote controlled profiles, and the better schools are doing this.

 
 
 
 


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  Reply # 925357 1-Nov-2013 09:06
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my brother is a teacher at a decile 3 school in south auckland, the school has bought a bunch of ipads (like 100 or so) that they use just a school resource (each room gets them when they need them, but mostly used by the older rooms).

they also bought 16 windows surface 1 rts to use.

Completely agree that forcing you to buy an ipad 3 or newer for a 8 year old is a joke.

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  Reply # 925360 1-Nov-2013 09:07
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KiwiNZ: it's a case of move with the times or be left behind, I can remember when Ballpoint pens were not allowed and parents moaned when fountain pens were replaced with them.


Agreed. I have no issues with ipads/tablets in the classroom. In fact I believe that they can only benefit education.

My problem is not the ipad itself. Its the network its connected to, and I dont trust the school to police/set it up properly, hence my reasoning as to why a mobile connection which parents control could work.

Maybe vodafone/telecom/2degrees could start supplying mobile student plans? Payed for by parents who can add/remove/block certain services etc .. I would be quiet happy to pay for something like that.

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  Reply # 925366 1-Nov-2013 09:11
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and then this happens, ok they are only 8 but kids will be kids

http://www.latimes.com/local/lanow/la-me-ln-lausd-ipad-hack-20130925,0,1971948,print.story




Common sense is not as common as you think.




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  Reply # 925451 1-Nov-2013 10:06
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Well it looks like the spokes person for the iPad story is Stuart Hale

http://www.vln.school.nz/profile/Stuart.Hale

Yet a local e-learning forum has discussed leapads and chromebooks amongst other technology.

http://www.vln.school.nz/discussion/owner/53310

Personally it isn't just about a non apple device, it is also about a more robust, open and cost effective device.

$500-$750 per child for a device as easily damaged as an iPad is crazy for school kids from 5-10




Generally known online as OpenMedia, now working for Red Hat New Zealand as a Solution Architect for all things Linux, Virtual and of course Cloud. Still playing with MythTV and digital media on the side.

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  Reply # 925470 1-Nov-2013 10:23
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1080p: Despite OP's concerns, teaching ICT to young children is important. The UK will be requiring kids as young as five to have a basic understanding of algorithms, for example. In a world already almost saturated with computers this is not a bad thing.

I can't understand the need for mobile devices for ICT teaching, however. Any computer laboratory would suffice. I can only imagine it is for those kids without computing resources at home being able to access homework and such. The catch-22 is that homes unable to afford computing hardware will have trouble affording a mobile device and, more importantly, an internet connection which makes the mobile device fit for purpose.


I think you missed something in the original post...

openmedia: The devices are to act as web browsers as part of learning and aren't for ICT.

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  Reply # 925518 1-Nov-2013 11:27
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openmedia: Well it looks like the spokes person for the iPad story is Stuart Hale

http://www.vln.school.nz/profile/Stuart.Hale

Yet a local e-learning forum has discussed leapads and chromebooks amongst other technology.

http://www.vln.school.nz/discussion/owner/53310

Personally it isn't just about a non apple device, it is also about a more robust, open and cost effective device.

$500-$750 per child for a device as easily damaged as an iPad is crazy for school kids from 5-10


There was an article on Stuart Hale in one of the community papers in Invercargill early last year, he was stating that parents were bad by purchasing their kids a PS3 or XBox as they were more expensive than an iPad, and didn't give the educational value.  At the time I question him as to where I could get an iPad for $265, he would never reply.

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  Reply # 925567 1-Nov-2013 11:50
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Just looking at Stuart Hale's profile on the VLN website makes interesting reading. The iEducator site (his own) lists him as having worked "for the New Zealand distributor of Apple products" for 16 years. This "smacdown" site (very poor English) provides slightly different information but it's along the same lines. There's clearly no bias...

Stuart Hale

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  Reply # 925598 1-Nov-2013 12:26
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stuff that, i would not buy an ipad. furthermore, ICT at school is a waste of time just let them play on the devices/computers you have at home.




gz ftw


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  Reply # 925625 1-Nov-2013 12:54
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It's not always a waste of time. We had a very tech-savvy teacher at primary school who taught us really handy things like touch typing, document formatting and basic photoshopping. The first two in particular proved to be invaluable, and they're not necessarily things kids will figure out for themselves playing around at home.

BUT

If the teacher is not tech savvy ICT is most definitely a waste of time, because the kids will inevitably know more than the teacher, and it'll just turn into a couple of the kids showing the teacher how to turn the computer on while the rest play around on youtube.

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  Reply # 925627 1-Nov-2013 12:57
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I just linked this thread to my teacher wife saying "prepare to be enraged"...

I think her response was something like "all I can do is laugh".


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  Reply # 925629 1-Nov-2013 13:01
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My wife had a lot of dealings with the Schools Intranet/ internet set up whilst at IBM. She advises that there is no requirement of the system to be device or platform dependent. Also the schools are not required under the set to provide
support for the BYOD devices. So Android, Windows, Apple based is fine.




Mike
Retired IT Manager. 
The views stated in my posts are my personal views and not that of any other organisation.

 

 Mac user, Windows curser, Chrome OS desired.

 

A Tiger in Africa, probably escaped from the Zoo.

 

 


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  Reply # 925631 1-Nov-2013 13:03
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Klipspringer:
KiwiNZ: it's a case of move with the times or be left behind, I can remember when Ballpoint pens were not allowed and parents moaned when fountain pens were replaced with them.


Agreed. I have no issues with ipads/tablets in the classroom. In fact I believe that they can only benefit education.

My problem is not the ipad itself. Its the network its connected to, and I dont trust the school to police/set it up properly, hence my reasoning as to why a mobile connection which parents control could work.

Maybe vodafone/telecom/2degrees could start supplying mobile student plans? Payed for by parents who can add/remove/block certain services etc .. I would be quiet happy to pay for something like that.


You make a good point about security, the system is as secure as any Intranet/internet set up. I guess with most aspects of guiding kids to adulthood parental guidance and oversight is a must. 




Mike
Retired IT Manager. 
The views stated in my posts are my personal views and not that of any other organisation.

 

 Mac user, Windows curser, Chrome OS desired.

 

A Tiger in Africa, probably escaped from the Zoo.

 

 


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  Reply # 925638 1-Nov-2013 13:04
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^Yeah but the problem with that is if you've got 3 sets of devices in the class, the teacher hasn't got time to develop 3 sets of exercises for each platform, especially if the exercise is app related rather than website related. Not to mention a lot of teachers have to pony up for their own device anyway so it's not like my wife is going to go out and buy an iPad, an Android tablet, and a Surface....as much as I'd like her to :)

So it's either all or nothing really, you go all in with one device and you accept that there'll be people who disagree or people who would rather use something else, or you don't do it at all because it's just too hard to cater for everyone.

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