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  Reply # 925780 1-Nov-2013 15:21
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KiwiNZ:

There is a wealth of knowledge and resources for the kids on the WWW, they should use it. Just like the Slate and quill made way for new stuff, the electronic devices will take place of the whiteboard and pen. It's a good thing. 

If you total the cost over the year of the myriad of A1 E4 G7 blah books and pens pencils erasers covers etc etc etc each teacher requires it would come close to the cost of a tablet.


Possibly, but it doesn't replace those things - they still need books and pens and etc.

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  Reply # 925784 1-Nov-2013 15:25
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jfanning:
lxsw20: Maybe you don't agree with iPad. But I can certainly understand the need to standardize the equipment.



This isn't just an iPad versus other platform, it is also a why do we need to use an expensive electronic device to teach, when the previous manual methods have worked fine.  Has there been any studies into using these devices performed that can show a significant benefit?


Yes, of course there have.  It's why the Ulearn conference exists.  There is tons of data out there.

Why WOULDN'T you use the new tools that are available and leverage the technology of the day?  Why would you stick to the old methods and not try something new?  You'd probably be surprised that the education you received (well I'm 35 anyway so if you're from my generation or older) is completely and utterly different from the one they receive today...because it's constantly evolving.  It's not at all like it was when I was at school, and in 15 years it'll be completely different again.  

 
 
 
 


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  Reply # 925785 1-Nov-2013 15:25
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Instinct suggests such studies will have been done, although I wouldn't know where to find them.
Manual methods do work fine but that's no reason not to try out other methods. Tablets have an uncanny ability to keep kids' attention and most kids enjoy using them, which are two pretty pretty big incentives for finding ways to use them in the classroom.

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  Reply # 925789 1-Nov-2013 15:27
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openmedia: 
All delivery is browser based and isn't platform specific. So why specify iPads?


That's simply not true of my wife's school, tons of the things going on are app related NOT just browser related.  Sure, if the school is ONLY going to use a browser then who cares what the device is?  But otherwise...

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  Reply # 925812 1-Nov-2013 15:58
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openmedia: The school is recommending iPads and warned parents that they can't support or provide assistance for other devices


I think it's completely unreasonable to expect underpaid primary school teachers to be able to 'support' umpteen different types of mobile computing devices, but you have to wonder to what extent they can even 'support' iPads.

A classroom full of computers is going to suffer from regular meltdowns, failures and glitches and many teachers are not necessarily technological whizzes. What do the teachers do when this happens? Are they trained in dealing with basic iPad troubleshooting? Is there a specialised member of staff who they call on when the going gets tough? Do they have an arrangement in place with Apple where they can call up for support if needed? If they can't fix the problem does that particular child stop learning for the day?

If I had kids at school I would want to know the answers to these questions.

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  Reply # 925822 1-Nov-2013 16:13
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KiwiNZ:


There is a wealth of knowledge and resources for the kids on the WWW, they should use it. Just like the Slate and quill made way for new stuff, the electronic devices will take place of the whiteboard and pen. It's a good thing. 

If you total the cost over the year of the myriad of A1 E4 G7 blah books and pens pencils erasers covers etc etc etc each teacher requires it would come close to the cost of a tablet.


But you don't require 30 iPads to download these resources from the internet.  And the cost of those items might come to the price of an iPad, but do they come to the price of a full classload of iPads?

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  Reply # 925838 1-Nov-2013 16:21
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gehenna:

Yes, of course there have.  It's why the Ulearn conference exists.  There is tons of data out there.

Why WOULDN'T you use the new tools that are available and leverage the technology of the day?  Why would you stick to the old methods and not try something new?  You'd probably be surprised that the education you received (well I'm 35 anyway so if you're from my generation or older) is completely and utterly different from the one they receive today...because it's constantly evolving.  It's not at all like it was when I was at school, and in 15 years it'll be completely different again.  


Where is this data published?  There are reasons for sticking to the old methods, they work.  Why do kids require an iPad (or any other tablet for that matter) do be able to learn to read, write, perform maths, or draw?

I'm older than you, I also have kids at that are in their final year of high school, and others that are about the start primary school, I am aware of some of the differences in education between when I went to school, and now.  But that doesn't change the fact that kids don't need a tablet to be learn at school, there are other tools available that I have seen can do the job

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  Reply # 925851 1-Nov-2013 16:34
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Google it. Like the kids do. On their iPads. In the classroom.

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  Reply # 925860 1-Nov-2013 17:00
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I would have thought a school would have to disclose kickbacks. They are possibly getting a 'donation'
Isn't a laptop for kids far more usable. ipads are really consumption devices, but a laptop is for production and consumption, eg writing an essay. Writing an essay is painful, and you need a keyboard to prevent oos if using a lot. I would have thought a Microsoft surface which has full windows built in and keyboard maybe a better option.
The problem is that ipads have a short llife cycle, so i isn't just the cost of the 1st one, it will need replacing within a few years as IOS isnt updated on older devices, and software then only works on new IOS versions. Whereas a windwos laptop could last 5 years, as MS do shave a long support cycle for windows(at least versions prior to 8)

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  Reply # 925863 1-Nov-2013 17:05
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KiwiNZ:
jfanning:
lxsw20: Maybe you don't agree with iPad. But I can certainly understand the need to standardize the equipment.



This isn't just an iPad versus other platform, it is also a why do we need to use an expensive electronic device to teach, when the previous manual methods have worked fine.  Has there been any studies into using these devices performed that can show a significant benefit?


There is a wealth of knowledge and resources for the kids on the WWW, they should use it. Just like the Slate and quill made way for new stuff, the electronic devices will take place of the whiteboard and pen. It's a good thing. 

If you total the cost over the year of the myriad of A1 E4 G7 blah books and pens pencils erasers covers etc etc etc each teacher requires it would come close to the cost of a tablet.

Although kids staring at these bright screens all day, isn't great on their eyes. 

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  Reply # 925880 1-Nov-2013 17:22
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mattwnz:
KiwiNZ:
jfanning:
lxsw20: Maybe you don't agree with iPad. But I can certainly understand the need to standardize the equipment.



This isn't just an iPad versus other platform, it is also a why do we need to use an expensive electronic device to teach, when the previous manual methods have worked fine.  Has there been any studies into using these devices performed that can show a significant benefit?


There is a wealth of knowledge and resources for the kids on the WWW, they should use it. Just like the Slate and quill made way for new stuff, the electronic devices will take place of the whiteboard and pen. It's a good thing. 

If you total the cost over the year of the myriad of A1 E4 G7 blah books and pens pencils erasers covers etc etc etc each teacher requires it would come close to the cost of a tablet.

Although kids staring at these bright screens all day, isn't great on their eyes. 


Not an issue if good ergonomic best practices are followed. Working the eyes does not harm them.




Mike
Retired IT Manager. 
The views stated in my posts are my personal views and not that of any other organisation.

 

 Mac user, Windows curser, Chrome OS desired.

 

A Tiger in Africa, probably escaped from the Zoo.

 

 


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  Reply # 925881 1-Nov-2013 17:27
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I think its times schools started getting sound advice from people in schools who are teaching ICT.

 

For around $150.00 ex lease (govt) computers can be purchased and these are capable of running Windows 8.1 and Microsoft office which is free of charge to all schools. This includes 17” LCD screens. Most Dual core computers can run Windows 8.1, even some old P4s are capable.

 

Surface RT is available at under $300.00 and has Office included. (I think this deal is still going for schools.) The debate on apps is rather a stupid one as far as I can see. There are granted more Apps available for Apple Ipads. But there are a huge number of suitable Apps for Windows 8 and the Surface. I know as I am using them for children from Yr 1 –Yr 8. Just how many apps do you want or need.

 

As for those who say that ICT is waste of time, you need to come and see children as young as 6 using Word, formatting, pasteing pictures, writing articles, printing or saving their work to a network, to realise just how capable our young children are.

 

There are some wonderful Education sites available for whatever device you use Windows, Apples, or Android. Sites such as the Woodlands Reading English Maths and Science for activities from Yr 1 to older students.  Ict Games is another of the many. Talk to people who use StudyLadder or Reading Eggs. We see enormous changes in students who have struggled previously and are now having great progress in use of these sites. So until you have actually seen what Students can do and are capable of I would suggest you withhold your comments.

 

I realise not all schools are using ICT successfully but much professional Development is needed and unfortunately much is provided by businesses pushing their particular brand.

 

Windows 8.1 was in my opinion made for schools especially since it is free. I have a lab of thirty computers all using it and you need to see how easily young children have adapted to it.

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  Reply # 925882 1-Nov-2013 17:33
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KiwiNZ:
mattwnz:
KiwiNZ:
jfanning:
lxsw20: Maybe you don't agree with iPad. But I can certainly understand the need to standardize the equipment.



This isn't just an iPad versus other platform, it is also a why do we need to use an expensive electronic device to teach, when the previous manual methods have worked fine.  Has there been any studies into using these devices performed that can show a significant benefit?


There is a wealth of knowledge and resources for the kids on the WWW, they should use it. Just like the Slate and quill made way for new stuff, the electronic devices will take place of the whiteboard and pen. It's a good thing. 

If you total the cost over the year of the myriad of A1 E4 G7 blah books and pens pencils erasers covers etc etc etc each teacher requires it would come close to the cost of a tablet.

Although kids staring at these bright screens all day, isn't great on their eyes. 


Not an issue if good ergonomic best practices are followed. Working the eyes does not harm them.


True, but many kids I have seen with them are hunched over them, with their eyes very close. I think restricting use is a good idea. I have an optician friend who says business is up with kids since mobile devices became more popular with school age kids.

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  Reply # 925909 1-Nov-2013 17:53
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I tend to agree with with jfanning.

Firstly, it's extremely difficult to compare the general standard of teaching today to what it was 20-30 years ago. Various socio-economic factors have changed over the past few decades which make comparing the introduction of BYODs to whatever else they had back then virtually irrelevant.

I realize there other significant issues involved. But, the crux of the issue IMHO, is that if you have a relatively low achieving scholastic infrastructure, then having iPads and/or - for arguments sake - your own personal GTX Titan cluster back-end, isn't going to make much - if any - difference.

BYODs are simply the next crotch/silver-bullet.

I watched an interesting doco on Finnish schools not long ago and noticed the near-total absence of desktop/laptop computers (let alone tablets). Then again, in Finland those "who can" actually teach (as where we tend to be the reverse).

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  Reply # 925916 1-Nov-2013 17:59
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zaptor: Then again, in Finland those "who can" actually teach (as where we tend to be the reverse).


Generalisation.

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