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658 posts

Ultimate Geek
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  Reply # 925927 1-Nov-2013 18:28
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gehenna:
zaptor: Then again, in Finland those "who can" actually teach (as where we tend to be the reverse).


Generalisation.


The argument that the (NZ) teaching profession is basically a tax payer funded employment service is not a new one.

Unfortunately, the relatively few really good teachers aren't enough to make up for the rest. If you want an example of total utter incompetency look no further than our public education system. I agree. It's unfair to tar every teacher with the same brush. But, when you have a system which basically protects the lowest common denominator (not even mentioning the predators), it's not hard to understand why good teachers either give up or eventually metamorphosize into mediocre (at best).

As for Finnish school teachers. I don't think it's a generalization to say they are arguably the best in the world.

84 posts

Master Geek
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  Reply # 925932 1-Nov-2013 18:37
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back to the topic folks please. There are hundreds if not thousands of very capable teachers out there, but they are under huge pressure to
collect Data and as a result have less time for actual teaching. Very little training in ICT is being provided and they are expected to keep up to date in their own time with ICT. But the topic was about Tablets in schools.

 
 
 
 


658 posts

Ultimate Geek
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  Reply # 925948 1-Nov-2013 19:11
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simplestuff: back to the topic folks please. There are hundreds if not thousands of very capable teachers out there, but they are under huge pressure to
collect Data and as a result have less time for actual teaching. Very little training in ICT is being provided and they are expected to keep up to date in their own time with ICT. But the topic was about Tablets in schools.


Right, yes.

Okay, tablets are a waste of time and money - for the aforementioned reasons I gave before.

My kids have the BYOD incentive being pushed through their college.

Do I think it will make a positive difference? Nope, not at all. If anything it might have a negative impact.

Will I be getting a device for my kids? Depends on what they'll be using them for, and how they're actually used in class. But, at this stage - I have no interest at all in investing in one.

Plus, if we did get something, I struggle to logically justify a consumption-focused device such as an iPad. I know you can get keyboards etc, but, in that case why not just get an ultrabook like an ASUS X201E?

944 posts

Ultimate Geek
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  Reply # 926040 1-Nov-2013 22:17
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simplestuff: I think its times schools started getting sound advice from people in schools who are teaching ICT. For around $150.00 ex lease (govt) computers can be purchased and these are capable of running Windows 8.1 and Microsoft office which is free of charge to all schools. This includes 17” LCD screens. Most Dual core computers can run Windows 8.1, even some old P4s are capable. Surface RT is available at under $300.00 and has Office included. (I think this deal is still going for schools.) The debate on apps is rather a stupid one as far as I can see. There are granted more Apps available for Apple Ipads. But there are a huge number of suitable Apps for Windows 8 and the Surface. I know as I am using them for children from Yr 1 –Yr 8. Just how many apps do you want or need. As for those who say that ICT is waste of time, you need to come and see children as young as 6 using Word, formatting, pasteing pictures, writing articles, printing or saving their work to a network, to realise just how capable our young children are. There are some wonderful Education sites available for whatever device you use Windows, Apples, or Android. Sites such as the Woodlands Reading English Maths and Science for activities from Yr 1 to older students.  Ict Games is another of the many. Talk to people who use StudyLadder or Reading Eggs. We see enormous changes in students who have struggled previously and are now having great progress in use of these sites. So until you have actually seen what Students can do and are capable of I would suggest you withhold your comments. I realise not all schools are using ICT successfully but much professional Development is needed and unfortunately much is provided by businesses pushing their particular brand. Windows 8.1 was in my opinion made for schools especially since it is free. I have a lab of thirty computers all using it and you need to see how easily young children have adapted to it.


Paragraphs would of made this so much easier to read, you being a teacher and all.

796 posts

Ultimate Geek
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  Reply # 926061 1-Nov-2013 22:47
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zaptor:
gehenna:
zaptor: Then again, in Finland those "who can" actually teach (as where we tend to be the reverse).


Generalisation.


The argument that the (NZ) teaching profession is basically a tax payer funded employment service is not a new one.

Unfortunately, the relatively few really good teachers aren't enough to make up for the rest. If you want an example of total utter incompetency look no further than our public education system. I agree. It's unfair to tar every teacher with the same brush. But, when you have a system which basically protects the lowest common denominator (not even mentioning the predators), it's not hard to understand why good teachers either give up or eventually metamorphosize into mediocre (at best).

As for Finnish school teachers. I don't think it's a generalization to say they are arguably the best in the world.


Yes NZ teachers suck  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Education_Index

T
hey are just in it for the money  

and the holidays.

They are all pedophilies

those that can do

dress badly

incompetent
 
lazy

anything you would like to add?

819 posts

Ultimate Geek
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  Reply # 926065 1-Nov-2013 22:50
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^

Education Index is calculated from the Mean years of schooling index and the Expected years of schooling index.


Yup, that's a good indication that our teachers are all good /s

658 posts

Ultimate Geek
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  Reply # 926103 2-Nov-2013 00:50
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blackjack17:
zaptor: 
...
Unfortunately, the relatively few really good teachers aren't enough to make up for the rest. If you want an example of total utter incompetency look no further than our public education system. I agree. It's unfair to tar every teacher with the same brush. But, when you have a system which basically protects the lowest common denominator (not even mentioning the predators), it's not hard to understand why good teachers either give up or eventually metamorphosize into mediocre (at best).
...


Yes NZ teachers suck  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Education_Index


Fascinating. I tried decoding the reference material (albeit briefly). Made no sense to me. I'm not sure that's actually a reflection of our education "standard", as opposed to the "index" - whatever that is.

However, I did find this:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_student_performance

Which still puts us in relatively good light (still somewhat surprising to me).

Perhaps a more realistic assessment is this one:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Education_in_New_Zealand


blackjack17: 
They are just in it for the money 

and the holidays.

They are all pedophilies

those that can do

dress badly

incompetent
 
lazy


If you say so.

blackjack17: 
anything you would like to add?


The debate about teaching/education standards is a controversial one. I believe teachers - by and large - start their careers with the best of intentions. I would never question their sincerity.
Teachers are well protected by the system. Under performing ones get shuffled (from what I've seen), but, I've only ever known one paycheck teacher to actually be let go. Even in that instance it was just because said teacher got themselves in circumstance where they could be removed relatively smoothly without hurting any reputations.

Decent teachers are worth their weight in gold. But being that committed is hard. Many new teachers burn themselves out when they first start - because they want to make a positive difference in kids lives. Plus they don't get paid that much to begin with. When they see their higher earning paycheck buddies winging it, eventually they ask themselves whether it's really worth the extra effort.

Ideally, you'd have a system which rewards/compensates teachers prepared to make that type of commitment, and at the same time disposes of (or at the very least gives them a serious rocket) teachers who are basically overpaid daycare workers.

Unfortunately, charter schools are little too late for my brood.

PS: simplestuff, I know off topic, sorry - but blackjack17 just had to ask....

658 posts

Ultimate Geek
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  Reply # 926112 2-Nov-2013 01:13
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blackjack17:  ... anything you would like to add?


Ah, I see you're a teacher.

I take it your the school ICT guy?

Excellent.

So, could you explain to me why BYODs are actually required to learn Maths, Science, and English?

How does it all work exactly?

5324 posts

Uber Geek
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  Reply # 926113 2-Nov-2013 01:35
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zaptor:
blackjack17:  ... anything you would like to add?


Ah, I see you're a teacher.

I take it your the school ICT guy?

Excellent.

So, could you explain to me why BYODs are actually required to learn Maths, Science, and English?

How does it all work exactly?


Wow is that all you were taught at school? How limited!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?sns=em&v=SSXyfX8ABhA



2295 posts

Uber Geek
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  Reply # 926115 2-Nov-2013 01:48
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gehenna:
zaptor:
blackjack17:  ... anything you would like to add?


Ah, I see you're a teacher.

I take it your the school ICT guy?

Excellent.

So, could you explain to me why BYODs are actually required to learn Maths, Science, and English?

How does it all work exactly?


Wow is that all you were taught at school? How limited!


There are 'core' skills which should always be taught, reading, writing and maths. Without the core skills its near impossible to build upon them.

Obviously technology can be used to accelerate those areas of learning, but unless its being done properly these toys could simply become an unwelcome distraction.

I'd like to see a standard learning environment delivered as a service over the devices using VMware View or Citrix , that provides consistency between hardware and security and potentially access restrictions in one package. (Network for Learning, you reading this?)



658 posts

Ultimate Geek
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  Reply # 926117 2-Nov-2013 02:03
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gehenna:
zaptor:

So, could you explain to me why BYODs are actually required to learn Maths, Science, and English?
 

Wow is that all you were taught at school? How limited!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?sns=em&v=SSXyfX8ABhA



Informative video. I think an answer for a different question though. Not the one I asked.

The question is why does a student need a computing device at all to learn Maths/Science/English in a classroom setting? (let alone their own device)

To be more specific. What teaching/software products are being used to facilitate the need for such devices?

If it's just the web, then how does that work exactly? Do students just type away while the teacher is giving the lesson?

Does the teacher direct them to Khan Academy or something?

If everything they need is on the web, then exactly why are we sending them to school in the first place?

I'm trying to understand what significant advantage having an iPad over say a curriculum text book provides.

796 posts

Ultimate Geek
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  Reply # 926131 2-Nov-2013 06:07
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zaptor:
blackjack17:  ... anything you would like to add?


Ah, I see you're a teacher.

I take it your the school ICT guy?

Excellent.

So, could you explain to me why BYODs are actually required to learn Maths, Science, and English?

How does it all work exactly?



No just a science teacher.

Byod are a very useful tool (not vital but useful).

Gone are the days when the teacher is the font of all knowledge. Teaching students how to find information, assemble it, and then present it is just if not more important than being able to name the elements.

sure there is a lot of very teachrs using it poorly, but it is changing


Will reply properly when have access to computer as this is an issue I am very intetested in

Sent from phone

1984 posts

Uber Geek
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  Reply # 926429 3-Nov-2013 01:26
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Seriously I don't think kids should have BYO devices at all until high school, they should not be given the opportunity to get addicted to internet at such an age. Neither can I see an excuse for getting the latest trendy "cool" device as a learning tool, and I would say there are good reasons for limiting any devices in classrooms to more generic equipment so that kids can learn to work with fundamentals regardless of brand (instead of expecting everything to be Apple). I've seen cabinets in schools where students put the class set of laptops or tablets to recharge. Probably a class set is the better option.

Apparently just for web browsing? Then Chromebook would be better, and also allow kids to get used to the idea of typing and creating stuff for actual school work.

If it's to enable all sorts of apps for chatting and doing cool stuff with a premium arty-looking price tag instead of learning? iPad would be the way to go.




Qualified in business, certified in fibre, stuck in copper, have to keep going  ^_^

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Uber Geek
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  Reply # 926432 3-Nov-2013 01:50
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^I despair for your world.

My wife is going to reply to you all tomorrow so she can tell you what the ict use case is in her class. Stand by.

510 posts

Ultimate Geek


  Reply # 926483 3-Nov-2013 10:13
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macuser: Isn't a Chromebook a far better idea, since they will have access to a keyboard and full mouse keyboard support for when they're playing math games (mathletics for example) etc, as well as Google Docs for writing. As long as the unit has good battery life it's a far better idea.



My Sister is a deputy principal at Tamaki college and they use Chromebooks. The whole school uses Google education. The cost of the chrome book is  $40 upfront then $15 a month.
Overall they are pleased with the decision they took. 




"In the end, it's not the years in your life that count. It's the life in your years." -
  --  Abraham lincoln

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