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  # 954639 19-Dec-2013 09:30
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KiwiNZ:
networkn: I can't believe this whole thing is still going on. At the end of the day, nothing he has done has impacted the public significantly or affected his ability to do his job. On any given day there is more waste in public office, than Len Brown is supposed to have not declared the benefits of. His job is to serve the people, which he has done, in my opinion much better than our last 3 mayors combined.

Sadly this is not about common sense, and because of the type of people these roles attract, councillors will block everything he does from now on, not because they have an issue with the stuff he is doing, but what he has done in his own time.

Stupidity at it's finest point.


If all this rubbish had come to light before the election I very much doubt he would have been returned to office, therefore he should do the honourable thing and step down, allow a by-election and stand as a candidate, this way the constituency will decide if they want him
to continue as Mayor.


Rubbish! Palino came out and said they didn't release it because they thought it would backfire on them.

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  # 954640 19-Dec-2013 09:32
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ajobbins: The other related issue I have on this topic is the stupidly over the top scrutiny of public figures expenses when travelling, like people getting up and arms that they spent $100 on dinner, or took a bunch of taxi's to meetings.

a) These people, as part of their jobs, are asked to be away from home and families and there should be a fair bit of discretion and compensation while they are away. If they want to take a client out for a nice meal - fine, if they need dry-cleaning done or need to take taxi's to get to meeting - who cares. If it's hookers and blow that's another story, but eating, entertaining and getting around seem to have come under scrutiny before and I just can't understand it.

b) It's nothing in the grand scheme of things. It's pretty well accepted that business travellers and made reasonably comfortable while they travel. It's the cost of doing business. However, for public officials it seems to be inappropriate to spend any money when you are expected to be away from home.


Agree entirely. However, we must bash the "rich pricks" whose intelligence and hard work has elevated them above the sheeple in their dead end blue collar jobs. (Note to NZ media - 'rich' begins at $1 million a year, not $100k a year!)





 
 
 
 


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  # 954641 19-Dec-2013 09:33
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No party/politicians should be allowed to accept funds anonymously or via structures that result in hiding who is donating the funds.

A.

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  # 954646 19-Dec-2013 09:37
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Geektastic:
ajobbins: The other related issue I have on this topic is the stupidly over the top scrutiny of public figures expenses when travelling, like people getting up and arms that they spent $100 on dinner, or took a bunch of taxi's to meetings.

a) These people, as part of their jobs, are asked to be away from home and families and there should be a fair bit of discretion and compensation while they are away. If they want to take a client out for a nice meal - fine, if they need dry-cleaning done or need to take taxi's to get to meeting - who cares. If it's hookers and blow that's another story, but eating, entertaining and getting around seem to have come under scrutiny before and I just can't understand it.

b) It's nothing in the grand scheme of things. It's pretty well accepted that business travellers and made reasonably comfortable while they travel. It's the cost of doing business. However, for public officials it seems to be inappropriate to spend any money when you are expected to be away from home.


Agree entirely. However, we must bash the "rich pricks" whose intelligence and hard work has elevated them above the sheeple in their dead end blue collar jobs. (Note to NZ media - 'rich' begins at $1 million a year, not $100k a year!)


I suspect that in NZ "rich pricks" just as often are what they are because some ancestor was good at business...and may (or may not) have "worked hard". This "working hard" meme is pernicious. Many people work VERY hard in jobs that will never make them rich....but they are jobs that very much need to be done: teachers, health care workers (other than doctors), firefighters, police, prison staff....and on and on and on.

I also suspect the term "rich pricks" is applied to those arrogant, selfish people who imagine their money makes them better people. There are wealthy people who were or are very highly regarded by everyone....and they do not behave like "rich pricks". An RP is more likely be the guy in the BMW or Mercedes who drives like he owns the road and happily cuts you off......and over time it's  different guys....but too often the same kind of cars.  An obvious sense of entitlement....an RP. 




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  # 954649 19-Dec-2013 09:38
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networkn:
KiwiNZ:
networkn: I can't believe this whole thing is still going on. At the end of the day, nothing he has done has impacted the public significantly or affected his ability to do his job. On any given day there is more waste in public office, than Len Brown is supposed to have not declared the benefits of. His job is to serve the people, which he has done, in my opinion much better than our last 3 mayors combined.

Sadly this is not about common sense, and because of the type of people these roles attract, councillors will block everything he does from now on, not because they have an issue with the stuff he is doing, but what he has done in his own time.

Stupidity at it's finest point.


If all this rubbish had come to light before the election I very much doubt he would have been returned to office, therefore he should do the honourable thing and step down, allow a by-election and stand as a candidate, this way the constituency will decide if they want him
to continue as Mayor.


Rubbish! Palino came out and said they didn't release it because they thought it would backfire on them.


I would not rate Palino as an adequate political commentator or even a politician. So I reject your impolite notion of "rubbish". 




Mike
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The views stated in my posts are my personal views and not that of any other organisation.

 

Using empathy takes no energy and can gain so much. Try it.

 

 


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  # 954650 19-Dec-2013 09:44
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Linuxluver:
Geektastic:
ajobbins: The other related issue I have on this topic is the stupidly over the top scrutiny of public figures expenses when travelling, like people getting up and arms that they spent $100 on dinner, or took a bunch of taxi's to meetings.

a) These people, as part of their jobs, are asked to be away from home and families and there should be a fair bit of discretion and compensation while they are away. If they want to take a client out for a nice meal - fine, if they need dry-cleaning done or need to take taxi's to get to meeting - who cares. If it's hookers and blow that's another story, but eating, entertaining and getting around seem to have come under scrutiny before and I just can't understand it.

b) It's nothing in the grand scheme of things. It's pretty well accepted that business travellers and made reasonably comfortable while they travel. It's the cost of doing business. However, for public officials it seems to be inappropriate to spend any money when you are expected to be away from home.


Agree entirely. However, we must bash the "rich pricks" whose intelligence and hard work has elevated them above the sheeple in their dead end blue collar jobs. (Note to NZ media - 'rich' begins at $1 million a year, not $100k a year!)


I suspect that in NZ "rich pricks" just as often are what they are because some ancestor was good at business...and may (or may not) have "worked hard". This "working hard" meme is pernicious. Many people work VERY hard in jobs that will never make them rich....but they are jobs that very much need to be done: teachers, health care workers (other than doctors), firefighters, police, prison staff....and on and on and on.

I also suspect the term "rich pricks" is applied to those arrogant, selfish people who imagien their money makes them better people. There are wealthy people who were or are very highly regarded by everyone....and they do no behave like "rich pricks".  


Many people also work smarter, not harder. If you can make a million with a laptop sat by your pool, all strength to your arm - you should not be denigrated just because you have smarts. Also I think there is a curious mismatch between the general perception here of hard work and the actual productivity of NZ workplaces which is pretty low according to several recent studies reported in the media. Just because you are AT work for 12 hours a day does not mean you are necessarily working hard!

The worst example is sportsmen - people earning $250,000 a week just for kicking a ball around a muddy field. Now that IS ridiculous.





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  # 954651 19-Dec-2013 09:45
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KiwiNZ:

I would not rate Palino as an adequate political commentator or even a politician. So I reject your impolite notion of "rubbish". 


Agreed. 

If I were Len Brown I'd consider canvassing who would be interestedd in running for election to further the policies Aucklanders support...and then resign when that person has had time to prepare some backing.

As it stands....the local Nats are all ready to go. They want Brown to resign then they will buy the Mayor's office .....all the while moaning about corruption and money in politics.

It's almost funny.  




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  # 954652 19-Dec-2013 09:47
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Geektastic: The worst example is sportsmen - people earning $250,000 a week just for kicking a ball around a muddy field. Now that IS ridiculous.


I have to correct you here - people earning $150,000 a week for kicking a ball around a muddy field. Most of those earning $250,000 a week sits on a wooden bench!




Swype on iOS is detrimental to accurate typing. Apologies in advance.


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  # 954664 19-Dec-2013 10:00
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Geektastic:
Linuxluver:
Geektastic:
ajobbins: The other related issue I have on this topic is the stupidly over the top scrutiny of public figures expenses when travelling, like people getting up and arms that they spent $100 on dinner, or took a bunch of taxi's to meetings.

a) These people, as part of their jobs, are asked to be away from home and families and there should be a fair bit of discretion and compensation while they are away. If they want to take a client out for a nice meal - fine, if they need dry-cleaning done or need to take taxi's to get to meeting - who cares. If it's hookers and blow that's another story, but eating, entertaining and getting around seem to have come under scrutiny before and I just can't understand it.

b) It's nothing in the grand scheme of things. It's pretty well accepted that business travellers and made reasonably comfortable while they travel. It's the cost of doing business. However, for public officials it seems to be inappropriate to spend any money when you are expected to be away from home.


Agree entirely. However, we must bash the "rich pricks" whose intelligence and hard work has elevated them above the sheeple in their dead end blue collar jobs. (Note to NZ media - 'rich' begins at $1 million a year, not $100k a year!)


I suspect that in NZ "rich pricks" just as often are what they are because some ancestor was good at business...and may (or may not) have "worked hard". This "working hard" meme is pernicious. Many people work VERY hard in jobs that will never make them rich....but they are jobs that very much need to be done: teachers, health care workers (other than doctors), firefighters, police, prison staff....and on and on and on.

I also suspect the term "rich pricks" is applied to those arrogant, selfish people who imagien their money makes them better people. There are wealthy people who were or are very highly regarded by everyone....and they do no behave like "rich pricks".  


Many people also work smarter, not harder. If you can make a million with a laptop sat by your pool, all strength to your arm - you should not be denigrated just because you have smarts. Also I think there is a curious mismatch between the general perception here of hard work and the actual productivity of NZ workplaces which is pretty low according to several recent studies reported in the media. Just because you are AT work for 12 hours a day does not mean you are necessarily working hard!

The worst example is sportsmen - people earning $250,000 a week just for kicking a ball around a muddy field. Now that IS ridiculous.


Likewise people should not be denigrated for doing blue collar jobs as in post # 954640




Mike
Retired IT Manager. 
The views stated in my posts are my personal views and not that of any other organisation.

 

Using empathy takes no energy and can gain so much. Try it.

 

 


Bee

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  # 954672 19-Dec-2013 10:13
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To me I don't think the General public know enough about the whole mess to really make a proper opinion and this just further adds to the mess...

The EY report is one good example - there are some that say this clears him of any legal wrong doing and then Cameron Slater says it shows massive wrong doing... Since I cant read the report myself, who should I believe?

When you have a quiet moment to reflect over the holiday period also ask yourself this :

Who is really running this country? Is it the politicians and councils? Is it the Business Roundtable? Or is it really the media - TV3, TVNZ and NZ Herald?


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  # 954703 19-Dec-2013 10:59
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Bee: To me I don't think the General public know enough about the whole mess to really make a proper opinion and this just further adds to the mess...


That's because the report doesn't have enough information to form a proper opinion.

Was he cashing is free nights earned following stays for official council business on personal nights (Arguably, those free nights earned would be an entitlement to the council)?
Did the upgrades relate to a normal loyalty programme for a hotel chain, or was he flashing his business card at the check in desk and asking what could be done for the mayor?

Then the question is how you can fairly derive the value of said upgrades and free rooms. Is it fair to use rack rates and differences between them when in reality those rates have no relationship to either the benefit received by the mayor or opportunity foregone by the hotel? (IMO - No it isn't).

This is a storm in a teacup.




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  # 954711 19-Dec-2013 11:18
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I still stand by my earlier point that it's not really about what's been done, or even the moral ambiguity...it's the fact that as mayor, he has lost the public's trust.

Trust is an absolute requirement in an office as powerful as the mayor of our only Supercity.

Irrespective of my own political views, moral views and personal views, this guy simply can't go on without the truist of the people and those he works with.

In saying that...who would replace him? Less than 10% of the population actually voted...would a by-election bring more voters to the table? I'd say probably not.




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  # 954718 19-Dec-2013 11:28
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Handsomedan: I still stand by my earlier point that it's not really about what's been done, or even the moral ambiguity...it's the fact that as mayor, he has lost the public's trust.

Trust is an absolute requirement in an office as powerful as the mayor of our only Supercity.

Irrespective of my own political views, moral views and personal views, this guy simply can't go on without the truist of the people and those he works with.

In saying that...who would replace him? Less than 10% of the population actually voted...would a by-election bring more voters to the table? I'd say probably not.


I have yet to speak to a person since it blew up that thinks he has busted their trust. I certainly don't feel that way. I saw a NZ Herald Poll that said 74% wanted him gone, but I'd have spoken to 50 people easily about it and not one says he should quit. 

The biggest problem isn't the publics trust, but the issue that the councillors will vote against him for the sake of it, and THOSE are the people who should stand down, as it's THEM that isn't acting in the publics interest. 


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  # 954722 19-Dec-2013 11:39
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He will definitely be censured unanimously today. But it is very unlikely he will lose the no-confidence motion.

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  # 954723 19-Dec-2013 11:40
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gzt: He will definitely be censured unanimously today. But it is very unlikely he will lose the no-confidence motion.


The no confidence isn't binding anyways right?


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