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  # 961829 6-Jan-2014 12:23
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KiwiNZ:
Klipspringer: As far as I know bars are allowed to let in who they like, when they like,  and deny entry to anyone for any reason whats so ever.

"Right of admission reserved" means exactly what it says. It does not mean that you need to be supplied with a valid reason as to why you cannot enter.

Its a pity that this Indian guy had to pull the race card. I doubt its race related.


Incorrect, racial bias is not permitted. And of course racism never happens 


There was nothing racial here.

I have been denied entry into pubs before too. I don't pull the racism card when I'm stopped.

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  # 961872 6-Jan-2014 13:46
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resurrect: "Mr Gopal, who has travelled to Argentina, Brazil, Canada, Malaysia and Singapore for work, says he feels New Zealand is "most racist"."

he hasn't been to South Africa, Australia or the USA


when i lived in melbourne (not central not rural pretty suburbanish) 50% of people didn't speak english and around 80% of people were non "pakeha" (don't know what you call white generational australians) ... the pakeha equivalent were the minority. i will leave you to extrapolate the rest




Swype on iOS is detrimental to accurate typing. Apologies in advance.


 
 
 
 


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  # 961876 6-Jan-2014 13:55
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Klipspringer:
KiwiNZ:
Klipspringer: As far as I know bars are allowed to let in who they like, when they like,  and deny entry to anyone for any reason whats so ever.

"Right of admission reserved" means exactly what it says. It does not mean that you need to be supplied with a valid reason as to why you cannot enter.

Its a pity that this Indian guy had to pull the race card. I doubt its race related.


Incorrect, racial bias is not permitted. And of course racism never happens 


There was nothing racial here.

I have been denied entry into pubs before too. I don't pull the racism card when I'm stopped.


I take it you were there when this event occurred, please fill us in with the details 




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The views stated in my posts are my personal views and not that of any other organisation.

 

Using empathy takes no energy and can gain so much. Try it.

 

 


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  # 961893 6-Jan-2014 14:16
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KiwiNZ:

I take it you were there when this event occurred, please fill us in with the details 


You the one that said

Incorrect, racial bias is not permitted. And of course racism never happens 


Why dont you start off by explaining to me what exactly did this bouncer do that was racial?

I assume you were there?



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  # 961894 6-Jan-2014 14:18
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joker97:
when i lived in melbourne (not central not rural pretty suburbanish) 50% of people didn't speak english and around 80% of people were non "pakeha" (don't know what you call white generational australians) ... the pakeha equivalent were the minority. i will leave you to extrapolate the rest


Australian cities are as racist as they come, to the point that when my wife went for a teaching job she was asked "do you have any experience teaching natives?".  When she replied "what do you mean?" the interviewer said "you call them Maori's I think?".  My wife said she's taught all kinds of New Zealanders and the interviewer replied "You won't have to worry about that here, we keep most of ours outside the cities".  Outside the cities might be a different story.

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  # 961903 6-Jan-2014 14:26
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Klipspringer:
KiwiNZ:

I take it you were there when this event occurred, please fill us in with the details 


You the one that said

Incorrect, racial bias is not permitted. And of course racism never happens 


Why dont you start off by explaining to me what exactly did this bouncer do that was racial?

I assume you were there?




My initial post on page 1 was  "If it occurred I hope the Bar is named, shamed and financially affected."  you are stating quite catagorically  "There was nothing racial here." so I assumed you have inside or eye witness info to make a catagorical statement, I am not that is why my 'if' statement.  




Mike
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The views stated in my posts are my personal views and not that of any other organisation.

 

Using empathy takes no energy and can gain so much. Try it.

 

 


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  # 961924 6-Jan-2014 14:34
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gehenna:
joker97:
when i lived in melbourne (not central not rural pretty suburbanish) 50% of people didn't speak english and around 80% of people were non "pakeha" (don't know what you call white generational australians) ... the pakeha equivalent were the minority. i will leave you to extrapolate the rest


Australian cities are as racist as they come, to the point that when my wife went for a teaching job...


So all Australian cities are like that based on one complete moron? 

That's a massive (and completely untrue) generalisation. Besides the fact you can get racist morons anywhere. NZ included.

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  # 961925 6-Jan-2014 14:35
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KiwiNZ:
Klipspringer:
KiwiNZ:

I take it you were there when this event occurred, please fill us in with the details 


You the one that said

Incorrect, racial bias is not permitted. And of course racism never happens 


Why dont you start off by explaining to me what exactly did this bouncer do that was racial?

I assume you were there?




My initial post on page 1 was  "If it occurred I hope the Bar is named, shamed and financially affected."  you are stating quite catagorically  "There was nothing racial here." so I assumed you have inside or eye witness info to make a catagorical statement, I am not that is why my 'if' statement.  


And I said, " I doubt its race related."

Not getting into a tit for tat argument with you over this one.




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  # 961950 6-Jan-2014 15:04
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blakamin:
That's a massive (and completely untrue) generalisation. Besides the fact you can get racist morons anywhere. NZ included.


Having lived there for 3 years and interacted with a massive variety of people, a lot of them are racist yes.  It's never going to be a majority because most people are normal nice people, but the level of influence of the minority is what matters and not a day goes by where some race related incident, often violent, is reported on the news - or even perpetuated by the news.



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  # 962053 6-Jan-2014 18:37
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Back on topic. They were totally correct not to name the bar.

All we know is that this chap went to a bar, was asked for ID, and was denied entry when he refused to produce it. And also that he isn't happy about this.

They could have done this for a number of reasons - maybe they thought he was underage, maybe the bouncer thought he recognised him as someone who had been previously been banned from the bar for bad behaviour and wanted to check his name against a list of trespassed people etc. We don't actually know why it happened.

There is no evidence whatsover of racism. Just an allegation from an annoyed person with an axe to grind because he was denied entry by the bouncer.

To my mind I actually doubt it was racism. If the bouncer didn't want to admit him for skin colour then I suspect he would have just said "you seem drunk to me, I can't let you in". He wouldn't have to, and probably wouldn't bother, asking for ID at all. Plus, it would be economic suicide for an Auckland bar to not admit non-white people - it would slash their customer base and revenue colossally.

In the absence of any actual evidence of racism it would be libel for the Herald to burst into print essentially publicly accusing a bar of racism. And the Herald's lawyers would have known this. I doubt the Hearld wants to be sued for a large figure.

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  # 962057 6-Jan-2014 18:51
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JimmyH: Back on topic. They were totally correct not to name the bar.

All we know is that this chap went to a bar, was asked for ID, and was denied entry when he refused to produce it. And also that he isn't happy about this.

They could have done this for a number of reasons - maybe they thought he was underage, maybe the bouncer thought he recognised him as someone who had been previously been banned from the bar for bad behaviour and wanted to check his name against a list of trespassed people etc. We don't actually know why it happened.

There is no evidence whatsover of racism. Just an allegation from an annoyed person with an axe to grind because he was denied entry by the bouncer.

To my mind I actually doubt it was racism. If the bouncer didn't want to admit him for skin colour then I suspect he would have just said "you seem drunk to me, I can't let you in". He wouldn't have to, and probably wouldn't bother, asking for ID at all. Plus, it would be economic suicide for an Auckland bar to not admit non-white people - it would slash their customer base and revenue colossally.

In the absence of any actual evidence of racism it would be libel for the Herald to burst into print essentially publicly accusing a bar of racism. And the Herald's lawyers would have known this. I doubt the Hearld wants to be sued for a large figure.


Where is it reported that he refused to produce ID?




Mike
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The views stated in my posts are my personal views and not that of any other organisation.

 

Using empathy takes no energy and can gain so much. Try it.

 

 


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  # 962248 6-Jan-2014 23:11
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Good catch, it isn't stated, I inferred it.

It said that he was asked for ID and then denied entry. I assumed that this was because he couldn't or wouldn't produce the ID. It would be odd (but still possible I guess) if he was asked for a valid ID, produced it, and was denied entry anyway (unless it showed he was on a banned list etc).

The Herald slipped up here though. If I was doing the story I would have arranged for a group of indians and a group of white people to go out for a drink and try to get into the bar at approximately the same time. Then see if one lot got in and the other didn't.

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  # 962374 7-Jan-2014 11:49
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JimmyH

Would have to do as an controlled experiment. Do it when bar is empty or not very full and do when bar is full or near full.

It would be very interesting to see if get different result.

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