Most prolific red light jumpers ..

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#965956 13-Jan-2014 10:27

GregV:
Mark: Also very interesting on the wording, for the poor bugger who got run over last week they never say he "ran a red light", they always say "the truck driver had the green"
The cyclist may have chosen to run the red, drifted out too far, and got collected by the truck. He may instead have had a malfunction, and not been in control of his bike. After all, who would willingly bike into the path of a truck? Until the Police establish the facts, I doubt that they are going to place any blame on the cyclist.

I agree but think the OP isn't cyclist friendly as can be seen by his gross exaggerations and generalizations based on his perception not facts.

Suffice the media hype this sort of thing up as it gets reactions but changes little.

If the person on the bike is in the wrong they paid the price and thats really sad for all parties concerned but shouldbn't be used to make a point thats just wrong.

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Mark

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#965959 13-Jan-2014 10:33

jeffnz: I'm interested in watching the way people go tribal and its now "all cyclists" get real people and save stretching the truth to make your point.

edit: spelling,

eh ? Who said it's "all cyclists" ? A quick CTRL+F for the word "all" doesn't show anyone else using that word.

MikeB4

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#965961 13-Jan-2014 10:34

The Road Code applies to all road uses, all road users have the right to use the road in accordance with those rules, all road users are deserving of the respect and care of all road users, and all road users have a duty of care to themselves and all others.

jeffnz

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#965964 13-Jan-2014 10:36

Off topic a bit but just to preempt the usual comments of cyclists don't pay, here's an article that explains that a bit better than I.

Although its not all about Auckland a breakdown of transport funding in auckland

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jeffnz

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#965966 13-Jan-2014 10:38

Mark:
jeffnz: I'm interested in watching the way people go tribal and its now "all cyclists" get real people and save stretching the truth to make your point.

edit: spelling,

eh ? Who said it's "all cyclists" ? A quick CTRL+F for the word "all" doesn't show anyone else using that word.

"Well duuuh anyone who drives will tell you cyclists disregard the rules the most!
valid point, inferred then "

good point, lets say inferred then shall we.

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Klipspringer

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#965970 13-Jan-2014 10:42

On my way to work this morning ....

I did not see a single incident involving a stupid car driver.

I saw plenty of ninja cyclists, cycling over pedestrian crossings, cycling on the pavements, cycling in the center of the road on a few downhills (holding back the cars). In fact I don't have enough fingers to count the foolish cyclists I see just on a single day into the office.

Considering we have probably 20cars on our roads to every cyclist, the cyclists are definitely the problem here. I'm not saying there are no foolish car drivers, all I am saying is that compared to cyclists, bad car drivers are by far outnumbered, especially when factoring in the car to cyclists ratio. Its time they started obeying the road rules like everyone else.

I live in Wellington...

jeffnz

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#965973 13-Jan-2014 10:46

Klipspringer: On my way to work this morning ....

I did not see a single incident involving a stupid driver.

I saw plenty of ninja cyclists, cycling over pedestrian crossings, cycling on the pavements, cycling in the center of the road on a few downhills (holding back the cars). In fat I don't have enough fingers to count the foolish cyclists I see just on a single day into the office.

Considering we have probably 20cars on our roads to every cyclist, the cyclists are definitely the problem here. I'm not saying there are no foolish car drivers, all I am saying is that compared to cyclists they are far outnumbers, especially when factoring in the car to cyclists ratio. Its time they started obeying the road rules.

I live in Wellington...

I think we can all recall the worst cyclists/motorists, pedestrians etc we see and forget about the ones that don't do silly things but to say that cyclists are "definitely the problem" is totally incorrect and you would have trtouble proving that every incident/accident was the person on the bikes fault./

but never let the truth get in the way of a good story aye

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Mark

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#965974 13-Jan-2014 10:49

gzt:
gzt:
Mark: Cause it's people like that who hike up my ACC!

In general you are correct about any risk taking behavior impacting ACC levies through increased accidents.

But in particular motorcycles have a far higher death and injury rate than cyclists.

If you wanted to improve your ACC fees, then it is logical to put the bulk of your effort into motorcycle safety.

I have been both a cyclist and motorcyclist. I have never seen any advertising campaign for motorcycle safety like the many we have seen for cyclists and car drivers. Surely there is a list of simple things arising from crash analysis to improve motorcycle safety which should be better known.

jfanning: that's a good point, so what does that education portion of my motorcycle registration go to?

Good question.

Some of that money gets funneled here : http://www.prorider.co.nz/motorcycle-training-courses.php?course=30
Then there is of course http://www.motonz.org.nz/
And there are other funded courses around.

But mainly if you are jumping onto a device that can propel you at speed into traffic then you should learn how to ride/drive it ... remind me how many road safety tests must a cyclist sit before being allowed out in amongst large chunks of moving metal ?

Yes I am not the most cyclist friendly person (I will point out I'm not the sort to give abuse or kick them off or any other dumb things like that, to me they are just another hazard to avoid), I just don't like that they get full road rights without paying towards the roads, or having to learn any of the road rules.

GregV

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#965977 13-Jan-2014 10:50

The thing that gets me, is that there seems to be a perception that cyclists are part of some exclusive, secret society, rather than commuters who prefer two wheels rather than four.

Quote from a comment on the Cycle Action Auckland FB page (bolded by me): "If you want action then tell your cyclists to STOP running red lights ... Until your mates start obeying the traffic laws then there will be more deaths". I'm assuming, but the cyclist in this case had probably never heard of Cycle Action Auckland.

Maybe it is time for a new media campaign, something along the lines of "WARNING, you can become a CYCLIST simply by GETTING ON A BIKE AND TRAVELLING SOMEWHERE. Don't let this happen to you."

Disclosure - I commute to work by bike every day, but in a much quieter part of the country than AKL Central.

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#965979 13-Jan-2014 10:53

I heard that cyclists are often motorists and pedestrians to, maybe wrong though but I kinda doubt it.

jeffnz

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#965981 13-Jan-2014 10:56

just some more Facts , couple of years old but clearly shows that only 23 % of the accidents over period surveyed were the person on the bikes fault, somewhat at odds to what some would like to think, perception v reality

@greg you are totally correct it isn't a secret society at all but some stereotype and put all into one box as its easier to make thier ill informed comments.

People using roads need to follow the rules or suffer the consequences.

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Mark

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#965982 13-Jan-2014 10:56

jeffnz:
Mark:
jeffnz: I'm interested in watching the way people go tribal and its now "all cyclists" get real people and save stretching the truth to make your point.

edit: spelling,

eh ? Who said it's "all cyclists" ? A quick CTRL+F for the word "all" doesn't show anyone else using that word.

"Well duuuh anyone who drives will tell you cyclists disregard the rules the most!
valid point, inferred then "

good point, lets say inferred then shall we.

ah my bad so I did! Heat of the moment nerd rage when I wrote that :-) I'll go crawl under my rock for a hwile.

Mark

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#965985 13-Jan-2014 10:58

KiwiNZ: I heard that cyclists are often motorists and pedestrians to, maybe wrong though but I kinda doubt it.

no .. when on a pedal bike you are a cyclist, when you are walking on your legs you are a pedestrian, when you are driving a car your a motorist ... you can't be all of them at once (unless you are in the circus and have a really weird act going on).

jfanning

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#965986 13-Jan-2014 10:58

Mark:

Some of that money gets funneled here : http://www.prorider.co.nz/motorcycle-training-courses.php?course=30
Then there is of course http://www.motonz.org.nz/
And there are other funded courses around.

But mainly if you are jumping onto a device that can propel you at speed into traffic then you should learn how to ride/drive it ... remind me how many road safety tests must a cyclist sit before being allowed out in amongst large chunks of moving metal ?

Yes I am not the most cyclist friendly person (I will point out I'm not the sort to give abuse or kick them off or any other dumb things like that, to me they are just another hazard to avoid), I just don't like that they get full road rights without paying towards the roads, or having to learn any of the road rules.

That first link is a paid for Auckland course, are they getting funding from registrations?

But in saying that, anyone that has got a motor cycle for quite some time has had to sit a practical test before being given a learners licence, maybe it is time that car drivers are given the same privilege?

And stop the rubbish about cyclists not paying for the roads, I pay taxes, I pay rates, I pay for the upkeep to the road for all the damage that my bike makes to it.

andrewNZ

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#965987 13-Jan-2014 10:58

I have mixed views on all of this. I rode a bike as my only form of transport for 10 years (by choice) and I see this car v. cycle battle (as it's become) from both sides.

Cyclists have a hell of a lot to answer for, I see terrible examples of cyclist behaviour on a regular basis.
But motorists aren't off the hook in my view, I also see an equal number of examples of drivers doing terrible things.
I've probably been an example of both at some point.

Drivers AND cyclists (and pedestrians for that matter) need to stop being tools and start doing what's right.

Drivers need to:
- Be aware of cyclists. Take a second look.

Cyclists need to:
- Be aware of motorists. Just because it's legal to ride 2 abreast doesn't make it right in all circumstances.
- Obey the damn road rules.

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