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ajobbins
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  #975960 28-Jan-2014 15:00
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ADKM:So the bottom line is its revenue gathering under the guide of road safety.


I don't fully agree or disagree with that statement, as there IS a relationship between speed and road safety which needs to be enforced.

What I would however prefer to see is a system where by the punishment increases not only based on speed, by frequency of offense.

For example, if you get pinged for the first time at up to 10km over the limit, you simply get a nice warning letter in the mail, perhaps with pamphlet on the impacts of speeding. Second time you do it within a set time frame (Say, 5 years), you get a small fine (The current $30). The third time you do it, it's a $200 fine. Fourth time it's a $2000 fine or suspension.

This way, the majority of us who stick to the speed limit but make the occasional mistake and aren't overly drivers get a gentle reminder, but not a hit in the pocket, while those who feel that speed limits generally don't apply to them (and are more risky drivers) are hit harder.

That way it becomes more about safety than revenue.




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ADKM
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  #975975 28-Jan-2014 15:11
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I completely agree with ajobbins. A fair and decent society would do just that. I also particularly like the Scandanavian system of fines based on income. What's wrong with us - why don't we do that?

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  #975976 28-Jan-2014 15:12
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ADKM: I completely agree with ajobbins. A fair and decent society would do just that. I also particularly like the Scandanavian system of fines based on income. What's wrong with us - why don't we do that?


Because its discrimination.

And because sometimes it does not matter what one earns, someone earning $100k per year with a family, could be closer to the bread line, than someone who does not work, and bulges on the welfare system (Subsidized by the guy at $100k who is battling to make ends meet). The higher income earners are already over subsidizing the lower income earners via tax on their salaries.



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  #975996 28-Jan-2014 15:47
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Geektastic: I don't know how accurate GPS displayed speed is, but 100 on my speedo is 94 on the GPS. I rely on the speedo, however, and drive at precisely 100 or slower.


You are free to take a conservative approach so long as you don't rant on about cars passing you as they might be relying on more accurate speedos and not exceeding the speed limit.

Batman
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  #976033 28-Jan-2014 16:26
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eh??? how is that a technicality?

YOUR speedo is incorrect therefore YOU sped?

you can get off if THEIR laser gun was incorrectly used.




Involuntary autocorrect in operation on mobile device. Apologies in advance.


ADKM
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  #976035 28-Jan-2014 16:27
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Bung:
Geektastic: I don't know how accurate GPS displayed speed is, but 100 on my speedo is 94 on the GPS. I rely on the speedo, however, and drive at precisely 100 or slower.


You are free to take a conservative approach so long as you don't rant on about cars passing you as they might be relying on more accurate speedos and not exceeding the speed limit.


That's the craziest thing I've ever read... anyone on a benefit can hardly afford to survive and someone with a 100k salary will never miss a fine of a few hundred dollars.

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  #976036 28-Jan-2014 16:27
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(you could sue your car dealer who sold you your inaccurate car but i still cannot see how you are going to argue that the police was wrong to ticket you because of the state circumstance!)




Involuntary autocorrect in operation on mobile device. Apologies in advance.




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  #976037 28-Jan-2014 16:31
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Bung:
Geektastic: I don't know how accurate GPS displayed speed is, but 100 on my speedo is 94 on the GPS. I rely on the speedo, however, and drive at precisely 100 or slower.


You are free to take a conservative approach so long as you don't rant on about cars passing you as they might be relying on more accurate speedos and not exceeding the speed limit.


It's not really a conservative approach, driving to what his car is telling him seems sensible to me. After all 100kph is not a target, it is the maximum allowable under appropriate conditions.

ajobbins
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  #976055 28-Jan-2014 16:54
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ADKM: That's the craziest thing I've ever read... anyone on a benefit can hardly afford to survive and someone with a 100k salary will never miss a fine of a few hundred dollars.


Any kind of financial based penalty is going to mean different things to different people in different circumstances. Again, a system whereby your penalty increases based on frequency of offence is good and non-monetary penalties can apply.

If you're a millionaire and like driving your Lambo fast everywhere and don't care about the money, perhaps the idea of having your license suspended (or worse) for an increasing period of time each time you speed will be a deterrent.

1st offence: warning
2nd offence: $30 fine
3rd offence: $200 fine
4th offence: $2,000 fine, 1 month license suspension
5th offence: $5,000, 6 month license suspension
6th offence: $5,000 fine, 12 months license suspension, compulsory defensive driving course
Anything more: Car crushed

Penalty for driving on suspended license should be harsh, too - and extend any suspension period automatically by 12 months.




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andrewNZ
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  #976057 28-Jan-2014 16:59
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ajobbins:
ADKM: That's the craziest thing I've ever read... anyone on a benefit can hardly afford to survive and someone with a 100k salary will never miss a fine of a few hundred dollars.


Any kind of financial based penalty is going to mean different things to different people in different circumstances. Again, a system whereby your penalty increases based on frequency of offence is good and non-monetary penalties can apply.

If you're a millionaire and like driving your Lambo fast everywhere and don't care about the money, perhaps the idea of having your license suspended (or worse) for an increasing period of time each time you speed will be a deterrent.

1st offence: warning
2nd offence: $30 fine
3rd offence: $200 fine
4th offence: $2,000 fine, 1 month license suspension
5th offence: $5,000, 6 month license suspension
6th offence: $5,000 fine, 12 months license suspension, compulsory defensive driving course
Anything more: Car crushed

Penalty for driving on suspended license should be harsh, too - and extend any suspension period automatically by 12 months.


The problem with punishment schemes like this is, there comes a point where the person has nothing to lose. After that they'll do whatever they please, and short of locking them up permanently (which isn't a solution), there's nothing you can do to stop them.

Penalties need to be a deterrent to the majority, beyond that you need to start getting inventive.

ajobbins
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  #976064 28-Jan-2014 17:19
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andrewNZ: The problem with punishment schemes like this is, there comes a point where the person has nothing to lose. After that they'll do whatever they please, and short of locking them up permanently (which isn't a solution), there's nothing you can do to stop them.


That's true of the current system too, tho




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  #976111 28-Jan-2014 18:08
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With gps in car, it says my speedo is 5km higher then what I'm actually doing.
I notice when doing 50 km an hour (on 50km per hour speed limit), cars are over taking me, so I aim for 53 km an hour, guessing the gps is accurate.

I'm guessing most cars say higher speed then what actually doing, so if you go for accuarcy of speedo it could turn out it was reading higher then 106km/ hour.

I got a ticket for being parked in no stopping between 4pm and 6pm. Time was 4.02pm on ticket, I wasn't happy, but no way I could prove warden watch was wrong, so just paid, and made note to self to not stop there anywhere near 4.00pm. I was only there for 2 minutes.

Pay fine, and drive slower if don't want more tickets, even if everyone else overtaking.

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  #976112 28-Jan-2014 18:10
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ajobbins: That's true of the current system too, tho


True, so stiffening penalties can only lead to the honest people being stung harder, while the regular offenders just truck along as usual.

I don't pretend to have a solution, but I am slowly beginning to understand the difficulties regulators face.

Abo

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  #976119 28-Jan-2014 18:28
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I wonder if they fill their quotas early this year they won't need to waste as much time revenue gathering and can spend more time doing actual police work (or catching the actual speeders on the road)

I don't agree that having a lowered tolerance has any affect on crashes - it implys that the majority of the crashes happen between 104 and 110 which I highly doubt is true.

If the police could actually provide actual evidence that a lowered tolerance directly influenced the number of crashes I would reconsider however I don't expect that to ever being proven.

They should fix the **** NZ roads first and it will fix most of the problems.

rayonline
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  #976123 28-Jan-2014 18:37
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When we were travelling at South Island a few yrs back our Navman GPS always said we were about 4 or 5km slower than that the car's speedo was reporting. So to be ticketed at 104km/hr for our car we would had to speed over by 8km/hr.

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