Speeding ticket for doing between 104-110km. Could you get off on a technicality?

Forums › Off topic › Speeding ticket for doing between 104-110km. Could you get off on a technicality?

1 | 2 | 3 | 4 | 5 | 6 | 7

72 posts

Master Geek

#976297 28-Jan-2014 22:28

the whole point in the "tolerance" is to allow a margin of error in case the speedo is slightly out. once you start treating it like the speed limit suddenly there is no room for error

Quic Broadband

Move to New Zealand's best fibre broadband service (affiliate link). Note that to use Quic Broadband you must be comfortable with configuring your own router.

lostangel

163 posts

Master Geek

#976561 29-Jan-2014 11:37

I had a car, an old Mitsi V3000 (like the old cop cars). It's speedo would say 95 when it was doing 100, and say 100 when doing around 110.

The tolerance was to enable people who have cars like that to be able to obey the law.

There is no speedo checking in wof, the only way i knew the difference is from gps(tom tom).

I think removing the tolerance only make criminals out of ordinary law abiding citizens.

StarBlazer

961 posts

Ultimate Geek

Trusted

#976639 29-Jan-2014 13:10

gished: So I was one of the lucky ones who got a speeding ticket over the holidays doing between 104 and 110 km/h (106 to be exact)

Does anyone know if you could get off on the technicality that your cars speedo was incorrect? IIRC the speedo only needs to be within 10% to be certifiable for NZ roads (and hence why the previous speed limit thresholds were what they were). This also doesn't take into account tire pressure wear or size impacting on accuracy.

Obviously I'm going to pay up the $30 fine and whatnot, but thought it'd be interesting to hear if this is something someone could pursue if they had spare time on their hands.

The one question I haven't seen asked is what speed to you believe you were doing?

Are you saying; a) My speedo said 100 but it was doing 106, b) my speedo said 106 and I was probably doing 106, c) my speedo said over 106 but I got caught doing 106.

If a, then I would get your car looked at to ensure you don't get caught again or adjust your speed accordingly knowing that you are actually going faster than the reported speed.

If b or worse c, then take it on the chin and be thankful that you weren't involved in an accident. One calculated stopping distance (which includes thinking time) is around 77m at 100kph. At 106kph that's around 86m (see http://www.random-science-tools.com/physics/stopping-distance.htm for details) all of which presume a correctly maintained car.

It's not a game to see who can stay as close as possible to the 100kph LIMIT. Personally with my speedo at 100kph I am doing around 97 based on GPS and roadside warning signs. That doesn't make me think it's okay to drive at 105 because my speedo is wrong and there is a tolerance.

Procrastination eventually pays off.

ajobbins

5052 posts

Uber Geek

Trusted

#976664 29-Jan-2014 13:28

If you have cruise control in your car, make good use of it. I use it a lot when the traffic is free flowing, even in 50/60k areas. My car is quiet and smooth enough that you can easily creep up over the limit if your not watching your speed constantly, so the CC means I can focus on the road rather than the speedo. Only thing you have to watch is going downhill as the CC won't do any braking for you (not on most cars anyway)

Twitter: ajobbins

jeffnz

2870 posts

Uber Geek

Trusted

Lifetime subscriber

#976794 29-Jan-2014 16:02

lostangel: I had a car, an old Mitsi V3000 (like the old cop cars). It's speedo would say 95 when it was doing 100, and say 100 when doing around 110.

The tolerance was to enable people who have cars like that to be able to obey the law.

There is no speedo checking in wof, the only way i knew the difference is from gps(tom tom).

I think removing the tolerance only make criminals out of ordinary law abiding citizens.

it is ludicrous to say say it will make criminals of anyone and I would think that it is your responsibility to ensure you obey limits and your cars speedo is accurate not be used as a reason for going over the limit.

"

Police is aware that most vehicle manufacturers err on the side of caution and speedometers almost invariably over-read – i.e. at an indicated 100 km/hr a vehicle may be doing an actual 95 – 96 km/hr (or less), so there is already an in-built tolerance that gives motorists "the benefit of the doubt". This should not be taken as an excuse to add a few km/hr onto one’s travel speed as vehicles all differ.

A test by Consumer Magazine in 2010 found many speedometers over-reading by up to 10%. Both Australian and European Design Rules require that a vehicle's true speed must not be higher than the speed indicated by the speedometer. Changing tyre heights (profiles) may impact on speedometer readings, so drivers are reminded to ensure that the tyre specifications are those set by the vehicle manufacturer.

Despite this, Police has not had issues enforcing the 4 km/hr speed enforcement threshold since its inception on holiday weekends in 2010. If, however, people want to contest a speeding infringement, they are able to do so through the appropriate channels."

source

get your speedo fixed don't use it as an excuse.

Galaxy S10

Garmin Fenix 5

MikeB4

18435 posts

Uber Geek

ID Verified

Trusted

#976813 29-Jan-2014 16:43

jeffnz:
lostangel: I had a car, an old Mitsi V3000 (like the old cop cars). It's speedo would say 95 when it was doing 100, and say 100 when doing around 110.

The tolerance was to enable people who have cars like that to be able to obey the law.

There is no speedo checking in wof, the only way i knew the difference is from gps(tom tom).

I think removing the tolerance only make criminals out of ordinary law abiding citizens.

it is ludicrous to say say it will make criminals of anyone and I would think that it is your responsibility to ensure you obey limits and your cars speedo is accurate not be used as a reason for going over the limit.

" Police is aware that most vehicle manufacturers err on the side of caution and speedometers almost invariably over-read – i.e. at an indicated 100 km/hr a vehicle may be doing an actual 95 – 96 km/hr (or less), so there is already an in-built tolerance that gives motorists "the benefit of the doubt". This should not be taken as an excuse to add a few km/hr onto one’s travel speed as vehicles all differ. A test by Consumer Magazine in 2010 found many speedometers over-reading by up to 10%. Both Australian and European Design Rules require that a vehicle's true speed must not be higher than the speed indicated by the speedometer. Changing tyre heights (profiles) may impact on speedometer readings, so drivers are reminded to ensure that the tyre specifications are those set by the vehicle manufacturer. Despite this, Police has not had issues enforcing the 4 km/hr speed enforcement threshold since its inception on holiday weekends in 2010. If, however, people want to contest a speeding infringement, they are able to do so through the appropriate channels."

source

get your speedo fixed don't use it as an excuse.

+1

Also if it appears that a high percentage of vehicles one encounters on the road are travelling slower then that would be a clue that the speedo is inaccurate. Now if you know the speedo is showing 100 when the speed is actually 110 then you know you are speeding and should adjust speed accordingly.
The legal maximum is 100 not 110.

Geektastic

17927 posts

Uber Geek

Trusted

Lifetime subscriber

#976818 29-Jan-2014 17:00

ADKM: I completely agree with ajobbins. A fair and decent society would do just that. I also particularly like the Scandanavian system of fines based on income. What's wrong with us - why don't we do that?

Because unlike Sweden, NZ has a low average income so the fines would be too small to deter, I guess.

Geektastic

17927 posts

Uber Geek

Trusted

Lifetime subscriber

#976820 29-Jan-2014 17:03

andrewNZ:
ajobbins: That's true of the current system too, tho

True, so stiffening penalties can only lead to the honest people being stung harder, while the regular offenders just truck along as usual.

I don't pretend to have a solution, but I am slowly beginning to understand the difficulties regulators face.

$1000 fine paid on the spot or 12 months in prison, no trial, no appeal. If you pay the fine within 14 days, you will be let out when it is paid. Otherwise you stay.

That would concentrate a few minds and get rid of a few dimwits.

Geektastic

17927 posts

Uber Geek

Trusted

Lifetime subscriber

#976822 29-Jan-2014 17:06

Abo: I wonder if they fill their quotas early this year they won't need to waste as much time revenue gathering and can spend more time doing actual police work (or catching the actual speeders on the road)

I don't agree that having a lowered tolerance has any affect on crashes - it implys that the majority of the crashes happen between 104 and 110 which I highly doubt is true.

If the police could actually provide actual evidence that a lowered tolerance directly influenced the number of crashes I would reconsider however I don't expect that to ever being proven.

They should fix the **** NZ roads first and it will fix most of the problems.

Why do Kiwis always complain it is revenue gathering to give penalty tickets to drivers breaking the law?

In an ideal world cars would be monitored by satellite and you would get a ticket in the post automatically when you break the limit or run a light.

I hope it IS revenue gathering - what could be fairer than a 'user pays' basis for policing?

mudguard

2067 posts

Uber Geek

#976824 29-Jan-2014 17:07

I'm 32, drive 40-50k a year. I just received my first speed camera ticket, 56k in a 50k zone. $30, so I'm not fussed. The tricky part for me is when I'm driving rental cars (which I do half the month), the first ten minutes I'm sitting in the car figuring out how everything works.
But it's more getting snapped driving somewhere (Ashburton in this case) and having no idea what the speed limit is.
In fact a couple of times I've been driving along at 60k and approached corners that have a 75kmh sign, and I've wondered where on earth the 100k zone sign was.

Cruise control can be hit and miss, my work car (which I use for the top half of the north island) will surge a little as it crests hills, before it cuts the fuel to drop it to speed. However I don't use at urban speeds, I find it a little risky.

But it's absolute pure revenue gathering. Frankly I'd like to see a complete diversion from traffic offenses, or create traffic cops again. Install red light cameras at poor intersections (the recent cycle death in Auckland in Parnell is notorious for enormous trucks carrying on through amber and red lights).

jeffnz

2870 posts

Uber Geek

Trusted

Lifetime subscriber

#976828 29-Jan-2014 17:23

mudguard: I'm 32, drive 40-50k a year. I just received my first speed camera ticket, 56k in a 50k zone. $30, so I'm not fussed. The tricky part for me is when I'm driving rental cars (which I do half the month), the first ten minutes I'm sitting in the car figuring out how everything works.
But it's more getting snapped driving somewhere (Ashburton in this case) and having no idea what the speed limit is.
In fact a couple of times I've been driving along at 60k and approached corners that have a 75kmh sign, and I've wondered where on earth the 100k zone sign was.

Cruise control can be hit and miss, my work car (which I use for the top half of the north island) will surge a little as it crests hills, before it cuts the fuel to drop it to speed. However I don't use at urban speeds, I find it a little risky.

But it's absolute pure revenue gathering. Frankly I'd like to see a complete diversion from traffic offenses, or create traffic cops again. Install red light cameras at poor intersections (the recent cycle death in Auckland in Parnell is notorious for enormous trucks carrying on through amber and red lights).

regardless of reason if you get caught take ownership of it stop making excuses.

I totally disagree its revenue and would think you have no hard facts to prove this either. Lets say it is revenue gathering, ok so stop the gathering by not giving "them" ammunition, in this case 'don't go over the limit'. Lastly I'm happy to have people that break the law pay money towards taxes but if you don't like don't put yourself in that position, its pretty simple really.

Galaxy S10

Garmin Fenix 5

MikeB4

18435 posts

Uber Geek

ID Verified

Trusted

#976830 29-Jan-2014 17:26

mudguard: I'm 32, drive 40-50k a year. I just received my first speed camera ticket, 56k in a 50k zone. $30, so I'm not fussed. The tricky part for me is when I'm driving rental cars (which I do half the month), the first ten minutes I'm sitting in the car figuring out how everything works.
But it's more getting snapped driving somewhere (Ashburton in this case) and having no idea what the speed limit is.
In fact a couple of times I've been driving along at 60k and approached corners that have a 75kmh sign, and I've wondered where on earth the 100k zone sign was.

Cruise control can be hit and miss, my work car (which I use for the top half of the north island) will surge a little as it crests hills, before it cuts the fuel to drop it to speed. However I don't use at urban speeds, I find it a little risky.

But it's absolute pure revenue gathering. Frankly I'd like to see a complete diversion from traffic offenses, or create traffic cops again. Install red light cameras at poor intersections (the recent cycle death in Auckland in Parnell is notorious for enormous trucks carrying on through amber and red lights).

If you know your car surges at the crest of a hill, use your foot on the centre pedal or the big pedal if an Auto.

andrewNZ

2487 posts

Uber Geek
Inactive user

#976833 29-Jan-2014 17:27

Perhaps officers could have the option of (alternatively or additionally) making you sit quietly no phone, radio, or other distraction except perhaps a information leaflet for 15-30 minutes and think about it. Might stop people speeding if they're in a hurry. A 30 minute delay is a pretty big deterrent in many cases.

mudguard

2067 posts

Uber Geek

#976854 29-Jan-2014 18:48

KiwiNZ:
If you know your car surges at the crest of a hill, use your foot on the centre pedal or the big pedal if an Auto.

Ah so that's how you slow down!

regardless of reason if you get caught take ownership of it stop making excuses.
I totally disagree its revenue and would think you have no hard facts to prove this either. Lets say it is revenue gathering, ok so stop the gathering by not giving "them" ammunition, in this case 'don't go over the limit'. Lastly I'm happy to have people that break the law pay money towards taxes but if you don't like don't put yourself in that position, its pretty simple really.

I have no issue paying the fine. It's possibly the lowest amount that gets issued. I rarely exceed the speed limit, even accidently. My ability to work (well in this job) depends on it. I am tired of this campaign against speed being the be all and end all of crime. I would've thought the 10k tolerance was reasonable. I've never been pulled over by the police either.

The police have no evidence that reduction in the tolerance from 10kmh to 4kmh either will save lives or reduce crashes either. I would say the difference in stopping distance and reaction time is not quantifiable.

Speed is always a factor, rarely is it a stationery car, but how often is it excessive speed? Tell how fast someone left a corner, were they doing 104k, were they doing 130k? I've no idea how they would work out the speed in a crash now either. I presume they must estimate from the damage on the car.

On a side note, do trucks have a lower maximum speed limit or are they the same as cars?

I would think that the road toll has only been decreasing due to the increasing safety features of more modern cars.

RunningMan

8882 posts

Uber Geek

#976863 29-Jan-2014 19:26

mudguard:

On a side note, do trucks have a lower maximum speed limit or are they the same as cars?

The lower of 90km/h or the applicable speed limit for the area.

http://www.nzta.govt.nz/resources/roadcode/heavy-vehicle-road-code/about-limits/speed-limits.html

1 | 2 | 3 | 4 | 5 | 6 | 7