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  # 988752 17-Feb-2014 11:46
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Lyderies:
Klipspringer:
KiwiNZ:
Criminalising drinking for those under 18 is not the answer, giving kids of 14,15, 16 etc criminal records for this would have far reaching implications beyond what is needed. Education is the answer concerning ALL addictions. However I do believe in prosecution of "adults" who get minors drunk.
As for smoking ban it simple. 


Well it blows me away thats its perfectly legal in New Zealand for 11 and 12 year olds to smoke and drink.

How can you prosecute an adult for getting a minor drunk if its legal for the minor to drink?
I would love to see how this law would work. It will create more problems than its worth.


And how would you stop them?

I know for a fact when i was 13 14 15 when someone told me i cant do something i would go out of my way to do it, first cigi at 13, first proper drink at 14, my dad didnt no about the smoking but he made me have my first drink with him, i was brought up with a respect for alcohol.

I would stop putting the blame on laws and what no,t and put the blame on the parents, kids are wrapped in cotton wool now adays, spoilt little brats that are over protected by dumb laws... 


its called education and affective parenting. If you were told not to stand in front of moving vehicles would you?




Mike
Retired IT Manager. 
The views stated in my posts are my personal views and not that of any other organisation.

 

Using empathy takes no energy and can gain so much. Try it.

 

 


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  # 988756 17-Feb-2014 11:48
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Lyderies:
Klipspringer:
KiwiNZ:
Criminalising drinking for those under 18 is not the answer, giving kids of 14,15, 16 etc criminal records for this would have far reaching implications beyond what is needed. Education is the answer concerning ALL addictions. However I do believe in prosecution of "adults" who get minors drunk.
As for smoking ban it simple. 


Well it blows me away thats its perfectly legal in New Zealand for 11 and 12 year olds to smoke and drink.

How can you prosecute an adult for getting a minor drunk if its legal for the minor to drink?
I would love to see how this law would work. It will create more problems than its worth.


And how would you stop them?

I know for a fact when i was 13 14 15 when someone told me i cant do something i would go out of my way to do it, first cigi at 13, first proper drink at 14, my dad didnt no about the smoking but he made me have my first drink with him, i was brought up with a respect for alcohol.

I would stop putting the blame on laws and what no,t and put the blame on the parents, kids are wrapped in cotton wool now adays, spoilt little brats that are over protected by dumb laws... 


Well its like underage driving...
Most won't do it because they know that there is a law that prevents them from doing it.



 
 
 
 


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  # 988795 17-Feb-2014 12:02
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KiwiNZ:
Lyderies:
Klipspringer:
KiwiNZ:
Criminalising drinking for those under 18 is not the answer, giving kids of 14,15, 16 etc criminal records for this would have far reaching implications beyond what is needed. Education is the answer concerning ALL addictions. However I do believe in prosecution of "adults" who get minors drunk.
As for smoking ban it simple. 


Well it blows me away thats its perfectly legal in New Zealand for 11 and 12 year olds to smoke and drink.

How can you prosecute an adult for getting a minor drunk if its legal for the minor to drink?
I would love to see how this law would work. It will create more problems than its worth.


And how would you stop them?

I know for a fact when i was 13 14 15 when someone told me i cant do something i would go out of my way to do it, first cigi at 13, first proper drink at 14, my dad didnt no about the smoking but he made me have my first drink with him, i was brought up with a respect for alcohol.

I would stop putting the blame on laws and what no,t and put the blame on the parents, kids are wrapped in cotton wool now adays, spoilt little brats that are over protected by dumb laws... 


its called education and affective parenting. If you were told not to stand in front of moving vehicles would you?


Its called chicken, use to be my favorite game




I'm going to noob myself past judgement

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  # 988798 17-Feb-2014 12:12
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Lyderies:
KiwiNZ:
Lyderies:
Klipspringer:
KiwiNZ:
Criminalising drinking for those under 18 is not the answer, giving kids of 14,15, 16 etc criminal records for this would have far reaching implications beyond what is needed. Education is the answer concerning ALL addictions. However I do believe in prosecution of "adults" who get minors drunk.
As for smoking ban it simple. 


Well it blows me away thats its perfectly legal in New Zealand for 11 and 12 year olds to smoke and drink.

How can you prosecute an adult for getting a minor drunk if its legal for the minor to drink?
I would love to see how this law would work. It will create more problems than its worth.


And how would you stop them?

I know for a fact when i was 13 14 15 when someone told me i cant do something i would go out of my way to do it, first cigi at 13, first proper drink at 14, my dad didnt no about the smoking but he made me have my first drink with him, i was brought up with a respect for alcohol.

I would stop putting the blame on laws and what no,t and put the blame on the parents, kids are wrapped in cotton wool now adays, spoilt little brats that are over protected by dumb laws... 


its called education and affective parenting. If you were told not to stand in front of moving vehicles would you?


Its called chicken, use to be my favorite game


Andi bet u more aware now of the dangers involved with standing in front of moving vehicles. Guess what all the anti drinking and anti smoking adverts are doing to our youth. Tempting the youth to do exactly that IMO

gzt

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  # 988816 17-Feb-2014 12:39
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JPS and F1 certainly created an interest in cigarette packaging on my part. In those days toys also carried the same branding as the real thing. It's good reason for plain packaging.

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  # 988820 17-Feb-2014 12:46
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Klipspringer: Andi bet u more aware now of the dangers involved with standing in front of moving vehicles. Guess what all the anti drinking and anti smoking adverts are doing to our youth. Tempting the youth to do exactly that IMO


No, I always knew that standing infront of a car was dangerous but i wanted to show i was the biggest one in the group, so as you said peer pressure is a big factor, but to me sole responsibility goes on the parents, stop wrapping them up and start hardening them up...

Little story i enjoyed was of an ex girlfriends dad, he started smoking at 12, his dad caught him and said right, if you smoke a whole cigarette infront of me then you can smoke, if you dont finish it you wont smoke. His dad rolled him a cigi but grabbed a couple of hairs off his head and rolled those in it as well... (if you have ever burnt your hair imagine smoking it), he smoked the whole thing because he wanted to smoke. 

I started smoking because i liked the smell, now i keep smoking because i enjoy it 




I'm going to noob myself past judgement

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  # 988825 17-Feb-2014 12:53
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Agree, Legislation does not stop people doing things, sometimes it's to the contrary.
Suggest education would have a greater effect on those who are considering smoking at a young age.
people at younger ages want to do rebellious and naughty things, we live in a nanny state where there are something like 20,000 odd rules and regs, most menial with a view to profiteering from the fines as opposed to changing behaviors.
Take the 15 year olds up to a cancer clinic and let them see the results. Then teach them that it's "strong" people that stick to their decisions.

 
 
 
 


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  # 988826 17-Feb-2014 12:58
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If an incoming government (it is election year) had any smarts they would just make law number one to ban cigarettes. After about 12 months everyone (including the now given up smokers) would be saying - 'isnt NZ clever - look we have done'.

No one else can legally make/sell a product, that when used as intended has such a range of health risks.




Nothing is impossible for the man who doesn't have to do it himself - A. H. Weiler

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  # 988838 17-Feb-2014 13:03
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Lyderies:

Little story i enjoyed was of an ex girlfriends dad, he started smoking at 12, his dad caught him and said right, if you smoke a whole cigarette infront of me then you can smoke, if you dont finish it you wont smoke. His dad rolled him a cigi but grabbed a couple of hairs off his head and rolled those in it as well... (if you have ever burnt your hair imagine smoking it), he smoked the whole thing because he wanted to smoke. 

I started smoking because i liked the smell, now i keep smoking because i enjoy it 


HAHA very similar to my Dad. When he caught he was sat down in front of his parents and told to start smoking the entire box. Once he finished the first one it was straight onto the next one. I suppose he thought he was cool until the 4th or 5th one in a row. After that he got sick. This put him off cigarettes completely. To this day he still can't handle the smell as he says it takes him back to that day about 55years ago. Good old fashioned parenting.

I got a well deserved hiding for smoking. After that I never smoked in front of them again. Yes I went behind their backs, but at least I smoked less because at home I just knew that smoking was out of the question.

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  # 988848 17-Feb-2014 13:09
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Klipspringer:
Lyderies:

Little story i enjoyed was of an ex girlfriends dad, he started smoking at 12, his dad caught him and said right, if you smoke a whole cigarette infront of me then you can smoke, if you dont finish it you wont smoke. His dad rolled him a cigi but grabbed a couple of hairs off his head and rolled those in it as well... (if you have ever burnt your hair imagine smoking it), he smoked the whole thing because he wanted to smoke. 

I started smoking because i liked the smell, now i keep smoking because i enjoy it 


HAHA very similar to my Dad. When he caught he was sat down in front of his parents and told to start smoking the entire box. Once he finished the first one it was straight onto the next one. I suppose he thought he was cool until the 4th or 5th one in a row. After that he got sick. This put him off cigarettes completely. To this day he still can't handle the smell as he says it takes him back to that day about 55years ago. Good old fashioned parenting.

I got a well deserved hiding for smoking. After that I never smoked in front of them again. Yes I went behind their backs, but at least I smoked less because at home I just knew that smoking was out of the question.


That there is gold

My mum still hits me if i smell like smoke, my dad steals my packet and proceeds to taunt me (usually by trying to throw them into the kitchen sink)

I think its exactly what i will do to my kids if i ever catch them




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  # 988853 17-Feb-2014 13:13
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Lyderies:

My mum still hits me if i smell like smoke, my dad steals my packet and proceeds to taunt me (usually by trying to throw them into the kitchen sink)

I think its exactly what i will do to my kids if i ever catch them


No you not allowed to hit them ..

But you are allowed to let them smoke. So forcing them to smoke the entire box is a much better option if you ever caught them smoking.

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  # 988861 17-Feb-2014 13:19
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Klipspringer:
Lyderies:

My mum still hits me if i smell like smoke, my dad steals my packet and proceeds to taunt me (usually by trying to throw them into the kitchen sink)

I think its exactly what i will do to my kids if i ever catch them


No you not allowed to hit them ..

But you are allowed to let them smoke. So forcing them to smoke the entire box is a much better option if you ever caught them smoking.


Im not allowed to do alot of things yet i still do it

No matter how much my nanny tries to tell me what and what not to do i think i will keep disobeying her






I'm going to noob myself past judgement

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  # 988916 17-Feb-2014 14:33
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Lyderies:
Klipspringer:
Lyderies:

My mum still hits me if i smell like smoke, my dad steals my packet and proceeds to taunt me (usually by trying to throw them into the kitchen sink)

I think its exactly what i will do to my kids if i ever catch them


No you not allowed to hit them ..

But you are allowed to let them smoke. So forcing them to smoke the entire box is a much better option if you ever caught them smoking.


Im not allowed to do alot of things yet i still do it

No matter how much my nanny tries to tell me what and what not to do i think i will keep disobeying her




And that is the very attitude as to why Managers must enforce protective wear
Why we have laws compelling people to do the sensible thing and wear seat belts, bike helmits, ignore the cellphone at the wheel etc etc.
Why we need laws to try and stop child abuse.

Look at the life jacket stupidity, boats must carry PFD's for all person aboard, it is not yet compulsory to wear them so many don't and many drown because they don't, we will soon have and most certainly should have
laws making the wearing of them compulsory.




Mike
Retired IT Manager. 
The views stated in my posts are my personal views and not that of any other organisation.

 

Using empathy takes no energy and can gain so much. Try it.

 

 


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  # 988920 17-Feb-2014 14:43
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There is a level of common sense for things like seat belts and life jackets
I will always wear both
If you die from not wearing a seat belt or a life jacket all i can say is you deserve it

The law has done nothing to curve child abuse in fact it has increased, it was a ill thought out law that dosnt work, i will smack my childrens arse if they are naughty, how hard depends on what they have done however i will never close fist them or hit them anywhere but the bum (sometimes not being able to sit down makes you learn a lesson more-so than a thump on the head).

There is a difference to having a law that reinforces common sense to just being complete over the top




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  # 988926 17-Feb-2014 14:52
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Lyderies: There is a level of common sense for things like seat belts and life jackets
I will always wear both
If you die from not wearing a seat belt or a life jacket all i can say is you deserve it

The law has done nothing to curve child abuse in fact it has increased, it was a ill thought out law that dosnt work, i will smack my childrens arse if they are naughty, how hard depends on what they have done however i will never close fist them or hit them anywhere but the bum (sometimes not being able to sit down makes you learn a lesson more-so than a thump on the head).

There is a difference to having a law that reinforces common sense to just being complete over the top


Do you have the metrics showing the increase in child abuse and  its correlation to the anti smacking legislation, and also showing that it's an actual increase in events or an increase in reporting ?




Mike
Retired IT Manager. 
The views stated in my posts are my personal views and not that of any other organisation.

 

Using empathy takes no energy and can gain so much. Try it.

 

 


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