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266 posts

Ultimate Geek


# 142554 17-Mar-2014 09:56
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I was in town this weekend where my friend was kicked out of the night club, i then went and asked for the manager which the bouncer proceeded to kick me out as well (didn't even get to the manager or my items left inside)... 

When we got home we started to debate the difference of having security and bouncers, what there powers were and how it differed

Does anyone know if there is actually a difference and what there powers actually are?





I'm going to noob myself past judgement

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2091 posts

Uber Geek


  # 1007085 17-Mar-2014 10:08
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http://www.bouncers-new-zealand.co.nz/bouncing-and-the-law.htm


B
ut from experience - if you get bounced you are screwed. Chances are you and your friends are pissed and not reliable witnesses. Unless they bouncer openly assaults you in plain sight and you have a number of people willing to testify for you it is your word against theirs.

Were you being an idiot?




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Ultimate Geek


  # 1007089 17-Mar-2014 10:12
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No idiocy from me, we were on the dance floor a guy shoved my friend from behind so naturally he turned around and shoved him back, the guy was the owner of the club and got the bouncer to kick him, all i did was ask for the manager and ask to go back in and collect my stuff which then got me refused back in







I'm going to noob myself past judgement

 
 
 
 


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Ultimate Geek

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  # 1007090 17-Mar-2014 10:13
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Security personnel should have what is called a COA that shows they have been vetted by the Justice Dept and are fit and proper to carry out security related duties. They do not have any "special" powers other than acting on instructions of a client. The COA should be able to be produced upon request by the police or client they are acting for. It does not need to be produced to any random member of the public.

Bouncers as such, may not have such approval and therefore no guarantee they are approved fit & proper to be carrying out duties.

Law changes were meant to bring both into requiring a COA, but unsure if this is yet the case.

gzt

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Uber Geek


  # 1007100 17-Mar-2014 10:22
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No idea. Both need a certificate to do so, probably different kinds. Maybe this will tell you:

http://www.bouncers-new-zealand.co.nz/

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  # 1007106 17-Mar-2014 10:29
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Lyderies: No idiocy from me, we were on the dance floor a guy shoved my friend from behind so naturally he turned around and shoved him back, the guy was the owner of the club and got the bouncer to kick him, all i did was ask for the manager and ask to go back in and collect my stuff which then got me refused back in





You see, that's idiocy right there. (over and above the idiocy of being on a dance floor!)

If someone shoves you it is not natural to turn around and shove them back, it is confrontational.

It's natural to use common sense and move away from them.





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Ultimate Geek


  # 1007148 17-Mar-2014 10:58
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If you believe you have a genuine complaint you can complain through the Private Security Personnel Licensing Authority, the 'bouncer' who asked you to leave is required by law to have a COA as mentioned above, the security company or bar that he / she works for is also required to have a Company Certificate.

As far as i'm aware there's no major difference between door staff / crowd controllers and property guards, although to work in different areas of security you are meant to have specific classes on the certificate of approval (COA) which they hold, training is now mandatory for to become a fully licensed guard however it previously was not.

More details on making a complaint here:
http://www.justice.govt.nz/tribunals/PSPLA/complaints-and-cases-before-the-authority

Source: I am a licensed security officer in crowd control ('Bouncing' being included), property guard, personal guard and security consultant.

gzt

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  # 1007152 17-Mar-2014 11:01
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Lyderies: No idiocy from me, we were on the dance floor a guy shoved my friend from behind so naturally he turned around and shoved him back, the guy was the owner of the club

It is hard to tell what the intention was from behind and did not see. 'Shoving back' under those circumstances is questionable, and in any circumstances probably silly anyway. In either case the bouncer did the right thing ejecting the group and not letting any member of the group re-enter the premises. That was the only possible action to take to guarantee the safety of everyone on the premises. Reducing risk of fights starting is the aim, it does not matter who is at fault. This owner might or might not be a goon but still the bouncer did the right thing in the circumstances.

 
 
 
 


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  # 1007154 17-Mar-2014 11:03
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They have no special powers and are private citizens unless deputised  by a police officer.

The moment you push back you become a problem, the mature action is to walk away.




Mike
Retired IT Manager. 
The views stated in my posts are my personal views and not that of any other organisation.

 

There is no planet B

 

 


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Ultimate Geek

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  # 1007160 17-Mar-2014 11:07
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Most recent bouncer experience, two bouncers on door, friends getting ID's checked, second bouncer waves me in, first bouncer grabs back of my collar and drags me out and demands to see my ID. Show him my ID, go in. Lol.

gzt

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  # 1007163 17-Mar-2014 11:09
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asmcar: If you believe you have a genuine complaint you can complain through the Private Security Personnel Licensing Authority, the 'bouncer' who asked you to leave is required by law to have a COA as mentioned above, the security company or bar that he / she works for is also required to have a Company Certificate.

Are you sure about the second part? It appears to me in the bar case the employer does not need a license at present:

Justice dept: Who doesn’t need to hold a certificate of approval or licence? Some people who do security work do not need to hold a certificate of approval or licence. Employers of in-house security, except those that hire out that security to another person or organisation are not required to hold a Crowd Controllers Licence.







266 posts

Ultimate Geek


  # 1007164 17-Mar-2014 11:10
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asmcar: If you believe you have a genuine complaint you can complain through the Private Security Personnel Licensing Authority, the 'bouncer' who asked you to leave is required by law to have a COA as mentioned above, the security company or bar that he / she works for is also required to have a Company Certificate.

As far as i'm aware there's no major difference between door staff / crowd controllers and property guards, although to work in different areas of security you are meant to have specific classes on the certificate of approval (COA) which they hold, training is now mandatory for to become a fully licensed guard however it previously was not.

More details on making a complaint here:
http://www.justice.govt.nz/tribunals/PSPLA/complaints-and-cases-before-the-authority

Source: I am a licensed security officer in crowd control ('Bouncing' being included), property guard, personal guard and security consultant.


Cheers, i dont feel the need for any complaint making, but the info is what i was looking for






I'm going to noob myself past judgement

gzt

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# 1007165 17-Mar-2014 11:14
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Zippity: Bouncers are normally thick as

I suspect that's just stereotyping. But if not, you should consider visiting a better class of establishment. ; ).

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Ultimate Geek


  # 1007167 17-Mar-2014 11:17
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gzt:
asmcar: If you believe you have a genuine complaint you can complain through the Private Security Personnel Licensing Authority, the 'bouncer' who asked you to leave is required by law to have a COA as mentioned above, the security company or bar that he / she works for is also required to have a Company Certificate.

Are you sure about the second part? It appears to me in the bar case the employer does not need a license at present:

Justice dept: Who doesn’t need to hold a certificate of approval or licence? Some people who do security work do not need to hold a certificate of approval or licence. Employers of in-house security, except those that hire out that security to another person or organisation are not required to hold a Crowd Controllers Licence.







My understanding is that in this case the employers of in house security are not required to hold a licence, however the employees that are doing the security work should still hold a COA. So the exception to my comment would be that the bar may not be required to have a company licence, but the individual should still have one. 

To be honest I think that website isn't terribly clear but that's from my interpretation of it. 

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  # 1007174 17-Mar-2014 11:25
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Zippity: Bouncers are normally thick as pig sh1t thugs


Thats polite....
I know a few bouncers and they are really cool and definitely not thick. Only thick if you were to measure the width.



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Ultimate Geek


  # 1007183 17-Mar-2014 11:36
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When removing people from there premises what is acceptable for being 'physical'? are there any legal guidelines?





I'm going to noob myself past judgement

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