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  Reply # 1024205 12-Apr-2014 22:29
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Its interesting that the complainant didnt moan about cellular coverage....
I used to live a few minutes away from Permin Road and for best internet speed I used a 3G device....speeds varied but generally 3-5 down and 600k+ up.
Ok so My cap was 6gigs a month but it was a reliable service even though path length was long and not a clear line of sight.

At his address he'd probably have closer options now as new towers and services have gone into the general area.....Just saying

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  Reply # 1024221 13-Apr-2014 00:34
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Let's take this to the logical fullest extent. Let's say there's one guy living 200km away from the nearest fibre or existing network, in the shadow of a tall mountain, perhaps in Fiordland or something. He invested in a nice solar system and has a generator but now wants Internet.

Should he 

A) build a solar powered repeater close to home that can see a satellite and wifi the signal back to his house and stump up for a satellite plan 

or

B) Whinge that because he's a taxpayer, someone should spend the several million dollars needed to give him is $100/month ADSL plan.

Now, let's imagine it's a settlement of 25 people but the same costs? Does it change the logical answer? No.

Now, what if instead of several million bucks, it might cost only a few hundred thousand...

At some point the equation works, we all just need to accept that there are going to be cases where no private company or government funding should be wasted to connect a small number of people in way out locations, and there are going to be situations where the decision won't be clear cut but is probably still an inefficient use of either business capital or taxpayer funds.

It's not rocket science, and it does cast serious aspersions on the skill and knowledge of various professional organisations within NZ that continue to bang the drum.

Cheers - N

Oh... "Way Out Locations" don't have to be that far away to be expensive either. Sometimes just a few K can be VERY costly to cover depending on equipment needed, local geography, bridges, accessibility, etc.


 
 
 
 


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  Reply # 1024256 13-Apr-2014 07:54
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SaltyNZ:
TimA:

OK, Good to see it spent on upgrading backhauls and enabling ADSL2+ and VDSL2 on rural exchanges. Bumma the internet gods dont favor that township of 25 people.


But that's exactly my point. Chorus is a business, Vodafone is a business ... 2degrees is a business. Businesses for profit. If it was left up to for-profit businesses then 30% of the population, who are unprofitable, wouldn't have basic services at all. That's why it should be provided by the taxpayer. Taxes are there precisely to ensure that everyone has access to everything they require. In the 21st century, that includes broadband.


Everything they require? The government has to allocate resources as it sees best (not saying they always do it right, or how me or anyone else would prefer), but we elect our governments to do this work on our behalf. There will never be enough money to give everyone everything that they require. Some compromises always have to be made.

Otherwise we could just go back to how it was under Muldoon: borrowing lots of money from overseas to pay for a lifestyle that we couldn't pay for out of our own pockets.




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  Reply # 1024312 13-Apr-2014 11:51
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I think the problem also is if they complain to the point they get what they want it could cost Chorus thousands, those 25 people are possibly on different cabinets too. The news will suck up "Local community gets faster broadband" and more people will complain.

My parents are on a very overloaded ASAM in Foxhill, Nelson so I know what it is like. Instead of complaining about their internet speeds I've allocated dedicated bandwidth to their SIP phone and when their internet literally drops down to dialup speed on their laptop it means there is 160kbit total bandwidth available to their connection, they go outside to feed the horses and do general work on their farm or watch a movie on the couch with the fire going, doesn't even bother them. They've got the best lifestyle out and not having internet for a hour per day is not going to ruin all the awesome things they have.

During off-peak they're able to get 7mbit, able to build up that movie collection for the next time they want to just relax from their lifestyle.




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  Reply # 1024315 13-Apr-2014 11:54
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michaelmurfy:[snip]Instead of complaining about their internet speeds I've allocated dedicated bandwidth to their SIP phone and when their internet literally drops down to dialup speed on their laptop it means there is 160kbit total bandwidth available to their connection, [snip].


Heh... I admire the solution, and it's a good one...

But look up 'kbit', 'literally' and 'dialup speed' please :-)

Cheers - N




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  Reply # 1024317 13-Apr-2014 12:01
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Talkiet:
michaelmurfy:[snip]Instead of complaining about their internet speeds I've allocated dedicated bandwidth to their SIP phone and when their internet literally drops down to dialup speed on their laptop it means there is 160kbit total bandwidth available to their connection, [snip].


Heh... I admire the solution, and it's a good one...

But look up 'kbit', 'literally' and 'dialup speed' please :-)

Cheers - N



Well since I allocate 100Kbps (/8 = 12.5KBps) to their phone so that stays going their connection to their laptop / other devices is lower than 60Kbit, so "literally" dialup speed is allowed to be said here ;)




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  Reply # 1024331 13-Apr-2014 12:42
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TimA:
sbiddle: 
Wireless is a finite resource that always need to be priced at a premium over fixed line services.



Not just a premium but need to be maintained to the certain level to ensure quality over quantity. Otherwise its just a wireless Conklin.


The fact that people are using more internet now than when the systems were first installed isn't relevant. That's the nature of the business: if it isn't growing, you have a big problem.  People are using more services from my employer too than when we started. I had to add capacity to keep up. So do the other engineering groups.

Wireless is useful to cover a wide area with sparse usage, but costs quickly mount when the usage begins to increase. With a fixed solution, once you have fibre in the ground, you can upgrade the backhaul almost ad infinitum. With wireless, you can't.

Perhaps when we are talking about 1 single subscriber out in the middle of nowhere he or she would be better off stumping up for satellite, but if the alternative to DSL or fibre is an RBI site then that's going to cost as much if not more than upgraded DSL. A cell site on the side of the road in suburbia costs a quarter of a million dollars - assuming you actually get to build it over the objections of the local NIMBYs and BANANAs - I can't see a rural one being a whole lot cheaper than a DSL cabinet upgrade.

I stand by my original comment that - absent the very extreme cases - the government should throw their money at a permanent solution to rural access issues, not one that guarantees they will remain a decade behind.




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  Reply # 1024443 13-Apr-2014 17:37
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To give an idea what it cost per metre of fibre put in the grpund it is roughly $40-45 a metre so laying it out rurally at that cost doesnt give a good enough return as does laying it in town

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  Reply # 1024445 13-Apr-2014 17:40
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Cbfd: To give an idea what it cost per metre of fibre put in the grpund it is roughly $40-45 a metre so laying it out rurally at that cost doesnt give a good enough return as does laying it in town


hm.. that would stack up pretty fast...




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  Reply # 1024451 13-Apr-2014 17:59
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SaltyNZ:

I stand by my original comment that - absent the very extreme cases - the government should throw their money at a permanent solution to rural access issues, not one that guarantees they will remain a decade behind.


I just cringe when people think its a good idea to spend millions if not close to a billion to provide a slightly better service to the 5% of our population.






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  Reply # 1024458 13-Apr-2014 18:19
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And if they had done 2 minutes of research they would have found: "RBI Broadband > 1 Mbps between Jul-2015 and Jun-2016"
But probably when this happens, they will attribute it to their moaning and complaining.

Nothing to see here :)





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  Reply # 1024462 13-Apr-2014 18:26
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It's interesting.

Not exactly related but sort of, in the UK you can issue a notice to a water company in England & Wales requiring them to use their compulsory purchase powers to lay water and sewage mains across other people's land to your home.

If the notice is valid (i.e. correctly worded) then they MUST comply and they can only charge you a small statutory connection fee, even if the cost runs to hundreds of thousands of pounds.

So in world terms, there is some kind of precedent for governments to force private companies to supply customers regardless of cost.

I'm not suggesting we have that here, just mentioning it as a matter of general interest.





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  Reply # 1024469 13-Apr-2014 18:39
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Geektastic: 
So in world terms, there is some kind of precedent for governments to force private companies to supply customers regardless of cost.


I would leave this country if those laws came into place.





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  Reply # 1024470 13-Apr-2014 18:44
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Just going to throw this out there:

1) They chose to live in the middle of no-where and expect first world service delivered? maybe I'm suffering from urban entitlement but if I decided to live somewhere then isn't it my responsibility to accept that I maybe giving up some conveniences associated with living in a big city?

2) Someone raised the issue of farms - lets remember one thing, many farmers run their business either at break even or a loss as to avoid paying tax (my uncle did it for years - paid himself a pittance and ran all the expenses through the farm) so the idea that the farmers 'are getting back what they put it' would only be true if  farmers were actually paying taxes equal or greater than the amount of money that would be required for broadband investment.




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  Reply # 1024471 13-Apr-2014 18:46
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Geektastic: It's interesting.

Not exactly related but sort of, in the UK you can issue a notice to a water company in England & Wales requiring them to use their compulsory purchase powers to lay water and sewage mains across other people's land to your home.

If the notice is valid (i.e. correctly worded) then they MUST comply and they can only charge you a small statutory connection fee, even if the cost runs to hundreds of thousands of pounds.

So in world terms, there is some kind of precedent for governments to force private companies to supply customers regardless of cost.

I'm not suggesting we have that here, just mentioning it as a matter of general interest.


I understand you're not suggesting we should have that here... I however am suggesting it's utterly stupid. (If it's even true, or current)

Cheers - N


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