'Third world' internet shocks residents

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#1024477 13-Apr-2014 19:07

So some basic research shows he'll be connected to the TSM/G RBI cabinet when it goes live and will be within VDSL2 coverage.

Really shows how even basic research is beyond a Fairfax journalist these days.

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DarthKermit

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#1024483 13-Apr-2014 19:17

sbiddle: So some basic research shows he'll be connected to the TSM/G RBI cabinet when it goes live and will be within VDSL2 coverage.

Really shows how even basic research is beyond a Fairfax journalist these days.

Remember that this was on the same site that has top-quality articles like the best and worst dressed for the week, and what will Kate be wearing during the royal tour?

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stuzzo

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#1024523 13-Apr-2014 20:23

People will always complain. Justified or not it"s effective and city dwellers are no less active in that department.

Once fibre is well established it's inevitable that rural people(those outside some demarcation point) will want faster internet You could assume an 80/20 rule and say 80% of rural people are quite close to a city. It's likely that, in time, it might be possible for many of these to be upgraded on an ecomomic or profit basis. Where private enterprise can't provide one would hope many communities can create their own solutions without a sea of red tape in the way.

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#1024550 13-Apr-2014 21:33

stuzzo: People will always complain. Justified or not it"s effective and city dwellers are no less active in that department.

Once fibre is well established it's inevitable that rural people(those outside some demarcation point) will want faster internet You could assume an 80/20 rule and say 80% of rural people are quite close to a city. It's likely that, in time, it might be possible for many of these to be upgraded on an ecomomic or profit basis. Where private enterprise can't provide one would hope many communities can create their own solutions without a sea of red tape in the way.

In the time back when I was at *insert major telco here* a customer complained to me about not receiving his full 100mbit down, 50mbit up Fibre.

1) His laptop was about 5 years old.
2) He was using WiFi provided by a WRT54GL.
3) He was still using Internet Explorer 7.

And still, he logged a complaint against the TDR and got quite aggressive eventually changing ISP's and becoming somebody else's problem.

Even if they did get faster broadband (be that ADSL2+ or VDSL) they'll still be like "So those city slickers are getting Fibre! This is third world! We produce the milk for their Lattes and demand the same sort of treatment they get.

1) Customers don't understand the companies providing them broadband (be it over Copper or Wireless) are in-fact businesses.
2) Customers don't seem to understand businesses need to make money to survive.
3) They still say NZ is offering expensive broadband and we're "third world"

TL;DR - People can be sometimes idiots.

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NonprayingMantis

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#1024626 13-Apr-2014 22:34

I'm thinking about starting a campaign for urban dwellers to rally behind. It's called 'Fair land prices'

Basically we look at the price of land in rural areas, then complain and moan to the newspapers about how unfair it is that land is so cheap in rural areas compared to urban. We will demand the government step in and use rural tax money to subsidise urban land to bring it down to the price of rural land.
It doesn't matter that this makes no sense at all. We just need a catchphrase. Something like "We'll trade your 3rd world broadband for our 1st world land prices"

I think that would be a fair compromise if they are asking urbanites to subsidise rural broadband.

Coil

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#1024632 13-Apr-2014 22:52

NonprayingMantis: I'm thinking about starting a campaign for urban dwellers to rally behind. It's called 'Fair land prices'

Basically we look at the price of land in rural areas, then complain and moan to the newspapers about how unfair it is that land is so cheap in rural areas compared to urban. We will demand the government step in and use rural tax money to subsidise urban land to bring it down to the price of rural land.
It doesn't matter that this makes no sense at all. We just need a catchphrase. Something like "We'll trade your 3rd world broadband for our 1st world land prices"

I think that would be a fair compromise if they are asking urbanites to subsidise rural broadband.

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#1024656 14-Apr-2014 06:34

This is all starting to get quite silly now. We're not talking about someone who lives 500km from the nearest town. We're talking about someone who already has DSL. That means it was considered economical to provide without a specific government handout to Chorus. Now apparently these people are due to be cabinetised and upgraded to VDSL.

But there are plenty of places that currently have DSL that are not getting an upgrade, even WITH a government handout. They are planned to be upgraded to a service with a slower target speed and 20% of the monthly bandwidth cap. That is NOT an upgrade.

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#1024666 14-Apr-2014 07:51

SaltyNZ: This is all starting to get quite silly now. We're not talking about someone who lives 500km from the nearest town. We're talking about someone who already has DSL. That means it was considered economical to provide without a specific government handout to Chorus. Now apparently these people are due to be cabinetised and upgraded to VDSL.

But there are plenty of places that currently have DSL that are not getting an upgrade, even WITH a government handout. They are planned to be upgraded to a service with a slower target speed and 20% of the monthly bandwidth cap. That is NOT an upgrade.

I don't believe the Conklins were ever economical to deploy.

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#1024671 14-Apr-2014 08:23

coffeebaron:
SaltyNZ: This is all starting to get quite silly now. We're not talking about someone who lives 500km from the nearest town. We're talking about someone who already has DSL. That means it was considered economical to provide without a specific government handout to Chorus. Now apparently these people are due to be cabinetised and upgraded to VDSL.

But there are plenty of places that currently have DSL that are not getting an upgrade, even WITH a government handout. They are planned to be upgraded to a service with a slower target speed and 20% of the monthly bandwidth cap. That is NOT an upgrade.

I don't believe the Conklins were ever economical to deploy.

I know somebody involved with the Conklin rollout who now regrets it ever happened - they were a solution that at the time was deemed smart because it allowed thousands of people who would not have had broadband to supply move to ADSL. There were those however who were scared that there was no forward planning involved, primarily around what would when the E1 backhaul became congested. They were a solution for the 128kbps days, and simply aren't capable of supporting todays caps. Replacing most of these however isn't economic particularly because getting additional backhaul at a cost effective price is a major issue.

I still don't see Simon's gripe against wireless RBI - it is delivering very good speeds to most users, and with an inevitable LTE upgrade those users will see even better speeds. For ~10% of the country wireless is the most cost effective solution.

stuzzo

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#1024732 14-Apr-2014 10:11

NonprayingMantis: I'm thinking about starting a campaign for urban dwellers to rally behind. It's called 'Fair land prices'

That's a good point. Whenever this kind of argument comes up you get those that say "rural people have to accept a much reduced service, that's the price of living in the country, not economic etc.". That's perfectly valid and fair to an extent but complicated by the fact that we are really in a society which combines a quite socialist governmental system with free enterprise business. That's the price of a stable country.

The UFB is, of course, subsidized. so we are often arguing about about how to apportion the handouts, and where you get subsidies there is inevitably unfairness, there are a lot of people (perhaps most of the rural because of the distribution) who don"t benefit from either UFB or RBI, but still pay taxes. I'd suggest it"s often more about politics than it is about economics.

With the house price example, the price of a house is influenced, not insignificantly, by the government influence on interest rates which it does, supposedly, for the benefit of all. It's hard to get past the duality of our system.

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#1024748 14-Apr-2014 10:33

sbiddle:
coffeebaron:
SaltyNZ: This is all starting to get quite silly now. We're not talking about someone who lives 500km from the nearest town. We're talking about someone who already has DSL. That means it was considered economical to provide without a specific government handout to Chorus. Now apparently these people are due to be cabinetised and upgraded to VDSL.

But there are plenty of places that currently have DSL that are not getting an upgrade, even WITH a government handout. They are planned to be upgraded to a service with a slower target speed and 20% of the monthly bandwidth cap. That is NOT an upgrade.

I don't believe the Conklins were ever economical to deploy.

I know somebody involved with the Conklin rollout who now regrets it ever happened - they were a solution that at the time was deemed smart because it allowed thousands of people who would not have had broadband to supply move to ADSL. There were those however who were scared that there was no forward planning involved, primarily around what would when the E1 backhaul became congested. They were a solution for the 128kbps days, and simply aren't capable of supporting todays caps. Replacing most of these however isn't economic particularly because getting additional backhaul at a cost effective price is a major issue.

I still don't see Simon's gripe against wireless RBI - it is delivering very good speeds to most users, and with an inevitable LTE upgrade those users will see even better speeds. For ~10% of the country wireless is the most cost effective solution.

The gripe isn't so much against the speed but more against the fact that I will no doubt be forced to move to a service that's more expensive for a much smaller cap. I doubt the cabinet will stay on forever once RBI is officially launched in the area, but I won't have a choice.

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coffeebaron

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#1024753 14-Apr-2014 10:43

SaltyNZ:

The gripe isn't so much against the speed but more against the fact that I will no doubt be forced to move to a service that's more expensive for a much smaller cap. I doubt the cabinet will stay on forever once RBI is officially launched in the area, but I won't have a choice.

I guess it's a bit like those Vodafone customers who still have their "promotional" 3GB data cap, not wanting to swap to new plans and complaining they can't get 4G.
What if you weren't on a Conklin because they decided not to deploy them; so you had only dial-up, satellite or standard mobile data? Would you be looking forward to RBI wireless then? I've certainly moved a few customers from dial-up, satellite, mobile broadband, 256k Extend and even a few on Conklins to RBI wireless and they are more than grateful.
To some extent, being on a Conklin is like having a data cap anyway, as it is rather hard to use a lot of "real time" data. Obviously you can schedule overnight torrents, but for many users is just not piratical to use a lot of data.

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Talkiet

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#1024831 14-Apr-2014 12:12

coffeebaron:[snip]Obviously you can schedule overnight torrents, but for many users is just not piratical to use a lot of data.

Brilliant typo... I'm going to presume you meant practical :-)

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Batwing

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#1024842 14-Apr-2014 12:35

In context it looks to be a suitably intentional use of the word.

coffeebaron

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#1024853 14-Apr-2014 12:38

Talkiet:
coffeebaron:[snip]Obviously you can schedule overnight torrents, but for many users is just not piratical to use a lot of data.

Brilliant typo... I'm going to presume you meant practical :-)

Cheers - N

Hehe. So do I admit to the typo or say pun intended? I'll leave that for the listeners to decide :)

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