Geekzone: technology news, blogs, forums
Guest
Welcome Guest.
You haven't logged in yet. If you don't have an account you can register now.


View this topic in a long page with up to 500 replies per page Create new topic
1 | 2 | 3 | 4 | 5 | 6 | 7 | 8 | 9
3102 posts

Uber Geek

Trusted
Subscriber

  # 1028049 20-Apr-2014 08:54
Send private message

Talkiet: Hang on, so re-reading this it sounds like you had TWO paywave enabled cards in one hand (one outside the wallet, and one in the wallet, and held the one outside the wallet up to the scanner... Correct?

Interesting question about how a scanner decides which card to choose I guess, but IF you held a paywave card within range of the reader as you were making a purchase, then I'm not really sure how upset you can be.



My understanding is that in the presence of two cards, the terminal will display an error - much like if you hold two cards up to a Snapper reader, which will then say "only one card please" (a HOP reader will similarly error, but with the noncommittal "card error")

Ford: 

My ASB card is just a yellow eftpos card. It doesn't have any wave symbols.
I didn't know my Gem was even wave, as I don't make shop purchases with it.



 

All new cards are NFC (payWave/PayPass) enabled.  It's a requirement from the card associations.  Also, direct issued American Express cards, despite the lack of markings, support NFC as well in the form of "Express Pay".

If that's an EFTPOS (not debit) card though, it literally cannot support NFC.

 



mattwnz: Don't the banks wear any fraudulent losses on these anyway, as transactions are limited to $80.


 

Nope.  All fraudulent transactions are borne by the merchants when the banks chargeback the transactions (plus the ~$75 chargeback fee).

615 posts

Ultimate Geek


  # 1028051 20-Apr-2014 09:01
4 people support this post
Send private message

Time for OP to line his wallet with tinfoil.

 
 
 
 


841 posts

Ultimate Geek

Trusted
Lifetime subscriber

  # 1028061 20-Apr-2014 09:30
Send private message

There must be more of us who have more than pay wave card in their wallet, I have two. It will be interesting to see if others have the same problem when they pay with one card while another sits nearby in their wallet.

28266 posts

Uber Geek

Moderator
Trusted
Biddle Corp
Lifetime subscriber

  # 1028065 20-Apr-2014 09:40
Send private message

geek4me: There must be more of us who have more than pay wave card in their wallet, I have two. It will be interesting to see if others have the same problem when they pay with one card while another sits nearby in their wallet.


Two cards will cause an error.

I have 5 NFC cards in my wallet so it's a simple matter of opening one of the 3 sections and tapping it depending on the 3 main cards I use (Air NZ / Visa / Snapper). If I want to use one of the other 2 cards I have to remove it otherwise they'll clash.


22523 posts

Uber Geek

Trusted
Subscriber

  # 1028445 21-Apr-2014 02:34
Send private message

I have done this inadvertantly and put something under $250 on my gem visa - had the wallet a good 6cm away from the side of the machine and it still got it, not the ASB debit card I was holding above the machine and to the right at the time. No 2 cards error, just a much faster response than the debit card gets, since the gem visa normally says accepted as soon as it is in range of the terminal.

So as the red bull and pie were less than $250 it only gets the standard 1 month interest free on the gem visa. Oh well. Not a huge amount.




Richard rich.ms

gzt

10909 posts

Uber Geek


  # 1028678 21-Apr-2014 19:37
2 people support this post
Send private message

Gem Visa - The sensitive way to pay ; )




Signature goes here.

3356 posts

Uber Geek


  # 1028710 21-Apr-2014 20:43
Send private message

If they have a no-auth <$250 OK theres something really wrong with owning one of those cards!

Most are $80, and pin request over that.

Strand Bags now include wallets (I was recently shopping) with wire threaded mesh around the card holder areas to stop wave-bys and accidental usage :) However negates the need to not have to pull the card out.

My BNZ CC only works from 1 side of the wallet. The other has 4 cards and a proxy access card in the way

However looking at the NFC apps on android and waiving the CC across it, the distinct lack of required security hash/handshake prevents the phone being used as a card.  For now..

http://www.tsmnz.co.nz/



 
 
 
 


22523 posts

Uber Geek

Trusted
Subscriber

  # 1028819 21-Apr-2014 22:54
Send private message

no, its no auth under $80 like all of them, but if you put things under $250 on them then you dont get the 6 months interest free deal which is what I use the gem for exclusivly so that I can keep that money elsewhere till it is due on the gem visa.




Richard rich.ms



430 posts

Ultimate Geek

Subscriber

  # 1028869 22-Apr-2014 03:05
Send private message

So I wonder if each bank paywave card range differs from bank to bank.
That would be one way for them to get transactions loaded on the credit card.
There may be no standard policy on what the range is so a bank could make its range longer than other banks cards ensuring the transaction is put on to their credit card first.
Unless, as someone said in the presence of more than one card the transaction is cancelled out.
That might only happen if the transaction occurs at exactly the same moment.
The banks must have policies on what the range of their cards are.
So paywave benefit is really for the banks in two ways - easy for the customer - and - the card with the longest range gets the transaction first.
Gem visa interest rate is actually 24% and even with their pomos it still costs more than any other banks credit card.
Tinfoil might actually be an idea worth considering.
Or a complaint to the commerce commission??

4536 posts

Uber Geek

Trusted
Lifetime subscriber

  # 1028877 22-Apr-2014 05:11
Send private message

Have we established the distance between your card and the terminal?





28266 posts

Uber Geek

Moderator
Trusted
Biddle Corp
Lifetime subscriber

  # 1028882 22-Apr-2014 06:19
One person supports this post
Send private message

Ford: So I wonder if each bank paywave card range differs from bank to bank.
That would be one way for them to get transactions loaded on the credit card.
There may be no standard policy on what the range is so a bank could make its range longer than other banks cards ensuring the transaction is put on to their credit card first.
Unless, as someone said in the presence of more than one card the transaction is cancelled out.
That might only happen if the transaction occurs at exactly the same moment.
The banks must have policies on what the range of their cards are.
So paywave benefit is really for the banks in two ways - easy for the customer - and - the card with the longest range gets the transaction first.
Gem visa interest rate is actually 24% and even with their pomos it still costs more than any other banks credit card.
Tinfoil might actually be an idea worth considering.
Or a complaint to the commerce commission??


Simple answer to all your questions. No.

Range is the same no matter what card you use and will vary slightly depending on antenna design in the terminal. As mentioned above multiple cards will cause an error.

File a complaint if you like, but I'm not sure why you'd go to the Commerce Commission as there was no breach of the Commerce Act, the banking Ombudsman would be the place to go.





4369 posts

Uber Geek


  # 1028923 22-Apr-2014 08:28
Send private message

Ford: I made a purchase today at Farmers using what I though was my ASB eftpos card as I was holding it in my hand against the eftpos machine at the time.

I was shocked when I got home and the receipt said GEM visa.
I never even took my GEM visa card out of my wallet but the machine was able to scan the card anyway
How is that possible?
I only ever use my GEM for online transactions.

I've also seen a youtube showing how you can actually by scanners online that you just carry in a pouch and wave it passed peoples bags and you get their credit card details.

I didn't think that was likely but given that I was able to make a purchase without even pulling out my card, that's scary.
I'll be leaving GEM at home from now on and hope I don't get burgled. Soon the days of breaking into your home and stealing computers and appliances will be a thing of the past. Just look for a "crimewave" card.

Ford


are you sure you didn't make a mistake? 

I tried to make a purchase with a card once and it declined. I was sure I had the right card but when I got back to the car and went through all of my cards I noticed i had been using my true rewards card . Funny but cruel brain trick.

3356 posts

Uber Geek


  # 1028933 22-Apr-2014 08:46
Send private message

nakedmolerat: Have we established the distance between your card and the terminal?


Nope. But earlier slueths note ABS don't have NFC unless attached to a debit card. So was likely a case of wallet+eft in 1 hand. Which I have heard multiple stories of.

Probably just multitasking and broke that ~4cm boundry. The data read via NFC is tiny compared to the mag-stripe. Making it a lot faster to authenticate and no input from the keypard requiring onboard encryption/decryption within the terminal

1177 posts

Uber Geek

Subscriber

  # 1028983 22-Apr-2014 09:36
Send private message

Had a similar issue happen with my AirNZ OneSmart card which was in my wallet and I obviously placed it too close to the EFTPOS terminal at Countdown while extracting my ANZ card - with which I was intending to use Paywave. I didn't realise at the time because I thought it was my ANZ card that had been detected. I also told the checkout operator to keep the receipt, so until the transaction appeared on my OneSmart card, I didn't even know what had happened.

gzt

10909 posts

Uber Geek


  # 1028995 22-Apr-2014 09:56
Send private message

Ford: There may be no standard policy on what the range is so a bank could make its range longer than other banks cards ensuring the transaction is put on to their credit card first.

Since this is not a viable business plan and will only cause massive loss of customers I think this is very unlikely.

If the problem does exist it is more likely to be due to incompetence rather than malice marketing. For instance a variance in manufacturing of the card or manufacturing specification or an unanticipated interaction between card type and machine type.

Those who are saying the problem does not exist are probably ignoring the evidence and are not following up with an investigation of the issue to determine the factors. Having worked as a quality assurance analyst I have investigated many such problems that were asserted to be 'absolutely impossible' and identified precise causes and circumstances in which they occurred.

1 | 2 | 3 | 4 | 5 | 6 | 7 | 8 | 9
View this topic in a long page with up to 500 replies per page Create new topic



Twitter and LinkedIn »



Follow us to receive Twitter updates when new discussions are posted in our forums:



Follow us to receive Twitter updates when news items and blogs are posted in our frontpage:



Follow us to receive Twitter updates when tech item prices are listed in our price comparison site:





News »

Microsoft New Zealand Partner Awards results
Posted 18-Oct-2019 10:18


Logitech introduces new Made for Google keyboard and mouse devices
Posted 16-Oct-2019 13:36


MATTR launches to accelerate decentralised identity
Posted 16-Oct-2019 10:28


Vodafone X-Squad powers up for customers
Posted 16-Oct-2019 08:15


D Link ANZ launches EXO Smart Mesh Wi Fi Routers with McAfee protection
Posted 15-Oct-2019 11:31


Major Japanese retailer partners with smart New Zealand technology IMAGR
Posted 14-Oct-2019 10:29


Ola pioneers one-time passcode feature to fight rideshare fraud
Posted 14-Oct-2019 10:24


Spark Sport new home of NZC matches from 2020
Posted 10-Oct-2019 09:59


Meet Nola, Noel Leeming's new digital employee
Posted 4-Oct-2019 08:07


Registrations for Sprout Accelerator open for 2020 season
Posted 4-Oct-2019 08:02


Teletrac Navman welcomes AI tech leader Jens Meggers as new President
Posted 4-Oct-2019 07:41


Vodafone makes voice of 4G (VoLTE) official
Posted 4-Oct-2019 07:36


2degrees Reaches Milestone of 100,000 Broadband Customers
Posted 1-Oct-2019 09:17


Nokia 1 Plus available in New Zealand from 2nd October
Posted 30-Sep-2019 17:46


Ola integrates Apple Pay as payment method in New Zealand
Posted 25-Sep-2019 09:51



Geekzone Live »

Try automatic live updates from Geekzone directly in your browser, without refreshing the page, with Geekzone Live now.


Support Geekzone »

Our community of supporters help make Geekzone possible. Click the button below to join them.

Support Geezone on PressPatron



Are you subscribed to our RSS feed? You can download the latest headlines and summaries from our stories directly to your computer or smartphone by using a feed reader.

Alternatively, you can receive a daily email with Geekzone updates.