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  # 1029924 23-Apr-2014 16:34
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From now on I'm going to experiment with how far away I can make my contactless card work... I usually take it out of the wallet and hold it against the screen on the eftpos handset, but now I'll see if I can make it reliably work from within my wallet/phone case.

I think I only have one contactless technology card in there.

Cheers - N

ps. I'll be sure to get upset if it gets billed to a card other than the one I wanted it to get billed to.





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  # 1029930 23-Apr-2014 16:38
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robjg63:
Paul1977: You planned to make the purchase with your standard ASB EFTPOS card, so you had the funds available in your bank account. Transfer the purchase amount from your ANZ account onto your GEM Visa. Now everything is square.

What is the point in arguing that you didn't approve the payment etc, at this point what difference does it make? You are no worse off, except having to "waste time" making a 30 second payment via Internet banking to reimburse you GEM Visa.

Time to let it go.


This.

You didnt get robbed or double charged - the money just went from the wrong account.
You (and probably some of us) have learnt that you need to be careful with your contactless payment cards.
The vendor has done nothing wrong - no point penalising them.


Thats is why they would need to escalate it. This is new technology so there are going to be problems with it, and unles people complain they will never fix it. It does however have to be escalated to the right person.

 
 
 
 


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  # 1029941 23-Apr-2014 16:54
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but what was the problem?

the OP inadvertently holding their wallet to close? thats not a vendor/bank problem

its not an issue with the technology

just dont put your paywave cards near the reader

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  # 1029942 23-Apr-2014 16:58
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I think for the type of NFC technology used, the distance is quite short, but 4 or 5 centimetres would be at the limit.  From memory it is a non-powered RFID tag used in the card.

Some things that I can think of that may cause an unintended transaction are,  wallet in pocket leaning against counter close to device.  Wallet in hand used to hold onto device, while attempting to swipe eftpos card in other hand.  Not realising device reader was activated for paywave transactions (I think it displays a message).





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  # 1029943 23-Apr-2014 16:59
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Jase2985: but what was the problem?

the OP inadvertently holding their wallet to close? thats not a vendor/bank problem

its not an issue with the technology

just dont put your paywave cards near the reader


It is a problem if they weren't holding it that close. Maybe the reader has a fault and is able to read the card far further away than it should. Going from what the OP said the wallet didn't come close to the reader at all. The problem is that it could have been another shopper whose wallet was close to the reader and got charged instead. Or it may have been debited from an account which they didn't want charging to, or it may have been a company card which they had been lent. So you can never assume someones circumstances.

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  # 1029946 23-Apr-2014 17:03
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"Present Card"

")))" symbol

Default messages on terminals for enabled.

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  # 1029947 23-Apr-2014 17:05
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mattwnz:
Jase2985: but what was the problem?

the OP inadvertently holding their wallet to close? thats not a vendor/bank problem

its not an issue with the technology

just dont put your paywave cards near the reader


It is a problem if they weren't holding it that close. Maybe the reader has a fault and is able to read the card far further away than it should. Going from what the OP said the wallet didn't come close to the reader at all. The problem is that it could have been another shopper whose wallet was close to the reader and got charged instead. Or it may have been debited from an account which they didn't want charging to, or it may have been a company card which they had been lent. So you can never assume someones circumstances.


Read all his separated posts again

It showed his GEM card on the receipt. And was distracted during time of purchase. Has STILL not said where the wallet was at the time of 'attempting' to swipe non NFC ASB (if infact that was in the hand at the time, he was "distracted")

 
 
 
 


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  # 1029948 23-Apr-2014 17:06
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Talkiet: From now on I'm going to experiment with how far away I can make my contactless card work... I usually take it out of the wallet and hold it against the screen on the eftpos handset, but now I'll see if I can make it reliably work from within my wallet/phone case.

I think I only have one contactless technology card in there.

Cheers - N

ps. I'll be sure to get upset if it gets billed to a card other than the one I wanted it to get billed to.



Especially if the phone is NFC enabled too??

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  # 1029951 23-Apr-2014 17:13
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mattwnz:
Jase2985: but what was the problem?

the OP inadvertently holding their wallet to close? thats not a vendor/bank problem

its not an issue with the technology

just dont put your paywave cards near the reader


It is a problem if they weren't holding it that close. Maybe the reader has a fault and is able to read the card far further away than it should. Going from what the OP said the wallet didn't come close to the reader at all. The problem is that it could have been another shopper whose wallet was close to the reader and got charged instead. Or it may have been debited from an account which they didn't want charging to, or it may have been a company card which they had been lent. So you can never assume someones circumstances.


that they realised

it may have but they didnt notice/remember

this day and age or these you the owner of the car needs to be careful with how they weild the card

its the owners (card) responsibility not the shops.

im sure the manufactuires of the readers and cards for that matter spend ages testing the distances/circumstances to enures it was a easy to use system that has minimal/no room for error from there side. they can not account for every situation, like were someone gets their card to close while trying to pay via other means





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  # 1031357 25-Apr-2014 21:27
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Hello
I went into Farmers.
The lady rung through to the security guy who looked at the footage.
They wouldn't let me look though. They said that I was blocking the camera at the angle I was standing on so it was not possible to see what the colour of the card was but they could tell I did have my wallet in my hand also. They didn't say how far from the eftpos terminal.
But the result is my wallet was close enough for to the terminal to detect the wave from the GEM.

They reversed the transaction and I paid again with my ASB card.
While I was chatting to the lady she told me that she has heard that there have been times where people have just waved their wallets and the machine picks up the card and she also said there have been times where the card has scanned twice and resulted in a double transaction. She hadn't heard of any times where someone else had inadvertantly paid for someone's purchases.

The moral of this story - leave GEM at home or wrap it in tin foil.
A good incentive to go back to using cash. I find that my impulse buys (this transaction wasn't) generally are made with the ease of a credit card.
I anticipate I'll save many thousands of dollars for the foreseeable future, expecially if eventually all cards go wave.
So while this purchase turned out to be a pain-in-the-a**se it might turn out to be a positive after all.

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  # 1031371 25-Apr-2014 21:34
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Ford:
While I was chatting to the lady she told me that she has heard that there have been times where people have just waved their wallets and the machine picks up the card and she also said there have been times where the card has scanned twice and resulted in a double transaction. She hadn't heard of any times where someone else had inadvertantly paid for someone's purchases.



There is no question here about a card working through a wallet - it should work through a wallet and this is one of the major benefits of NFC as you no longer need to remove your cards from your wallet. Smart people also separate their wallet off so can have cards on each side and flip the wallet as required and avoid multiple card conflict.

As to "double transactions" occurring, quite frankly this is just rubbish. It simply can't happen. Period. End of story.



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  # 1031375 25-Apr-2014 21:39
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Indeed. Once the reader "sees" a card, it stops looking. It therefore won't re-read the same card. The only way that I can imagine two transactions happening is if there are two readers right next to each other and both are at the "wait for card" phase. Even then they'd have to be very close and it's unlikely that the card will be picked up by both of them.

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  # 1031376 25-Apr-2014 21:43
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take the card you wish to use out of your wallet away from the terminal, put the wallet back into your pocket pay using selected card then you wont have any issues. and you dont need to leave said card at home

its not rocket science, its common sense, keep it a reasonable distance from the terminal.

you have made this whole thing out to be bigger than it ever needed to be

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# 1031380 25-Apr-2014 22:07
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Ford: .... she also said there have been times where the card has scanned twice and resulted in a double transaction.


No way! She lied.





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  # 1031420 26-Apr-2014 07:12
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It's happened to me in Brisbane.

I paid two bills (different amounts!) with one pin entry on my visa. Admittedly not nfc.

But it can happen. A jumbo jet can vanish. So can your money. Technology is not fool proof no matter what engineers think.




Involuntary autocorrect in operation on mobile device. Apologies in advance.


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