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  # 1031426 26-Apr-2014 08:53
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joker97: It's happened to me in Brisbane.

I paid two bills (different amounts!) with one pin entry on my visa. Admittedly not nfc.

But it can happen. A jumbo jet can vanish. So can your money. Technology is not fool proof no matter what engineers think.


First, the payWave system is designed to prevent double processing of the same transaction (the processing network will actually reject it if a transaction is submitted twice with identical details).

Second, how can you pay two transactions?  Was one payWave and one not?

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  # 1031435 26-Apr-2014 09:34
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joker97: It's happened to me in Brisbane.

I paid two bills (different amounts!) with one pin entry on my visa. Admittedly not nfc.

But it can happen. A jumbo jet can vanish. So can your money. Technology is not fool proof no matter what engineers think.


Once again I'll repeat myself. A duplicate transaction is impossible.

A plane can disappear. Your money can disappear. But a duplicate transaction on a single card simply cannot occur and likewise two cards being charged also cannot occur.






 
 
 
 


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  # 1031464 26-Apr-2014 10:29
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Kyanar:
joker97: It's happened to me in Brisbane.

I paid two bills (different amounts!) with one pin entry on my visa. Admittedly not nfc.

But it can happen. A jumbo jet can vanish. So can your money. Technology is not fool proof no matter what engineers think.


First, the payWave system is designed to prevent double processing of the same transaction (the processing network will actually reject it if a transaction is submitted twice with identical details).

Second, how can you pay two transactions?  Was one payWave and one not?


And yet there have been reports of multiple transactions using NFC when there should be a single one.

Yes the technology is better, but it is flawed in that it doesn't REQUIRE a PIN or second form of authentication in addition to the NFC handshake.

If a PIN was required for all transactions then any double transactions would be a real flaw in the paywave/paypass backend.

Also a PIN would help prevent the wrong card being used.

NFC without PIN is for small cash style transactions which personally are sub $10 and not sub $80




Generally known online as OpenMedia, now working for Red Hat APAC a Technology Evangelist and Product Manager. Still playing with MythTV and digital media on the side.


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  # 1031488 26-Apr-2014 11:28
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openmedia:
And yet there have been reports of multiple transactions using NFC when there should be a single one.

Most likely operator error; i.e. transaction goes through fast and they think is hasn't. "I don't think it went through, better do it again". I have seen this happen, I have seen this nearly tried on me too. Operators who aren't use to this technology.
 




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  # 1031519 26-Apr-2014 12:32
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Under $80 is a small transaction. Under $10 would be close to useless unless it is only ever for a single coffee or a tiny amount of parking.

I would rather the $80 be higher as I always seem to hit about $95 to $120 with most purchases where I would want to use it.




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  # 1031533 26-Apr-2014 12:55
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richms: Under $80 is a small transaction. Under $10 would be close to useless unless it is only ever for a single coffee or a tiny amount of parking.

I would rather the $80 be higher as I always seem to hit about $95 to $120 with most purchases where I would want to use it.


Sorry but $20 is a medium transaction and $50 is large personally.

Anything over $20 is considered, over $50 requires investigation and so on upwards.




Generally known online as OpenMedia, now working for Red Hat APAC a Technology Evangelist and Product Manager. Still playing with MythTV and digital media on the side.


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  # 1031534 26-Apr-2014 12:59
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Now if the end user could decide we could all be happy.
The default should be PIN for all transactions from a security perspective and then users can optionally decide their PIN free limit upto $80 or $120.

That would work for me.




Generally known online as OpenMedia, now working for Red Hat APAC a Technology Evangelist and Product Manager. Still playing with MythTV and digital media on the side.


 
 
 
 


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  # 1031545 26-Apr-2014 13:36
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Jase2985: but what was the problem?

the OP inadvertently holding their wallet to close? thats not a vendor/bank problem

its not an issue with the technology

just dont put your paywave cards near the reader


In a world where many things are moving to using 2 factor authentication, a 0 authentication system like pay wave seems absurd.

At the least you should have to hit the ok button on the terminal or you should be able to turn paywave on and off on the card on demand.

Being able to pay without intending too (even by accident) is terrible human interface design.

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  # 1031552 26-Apr-2014 13:55
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Oblivian:
mattwnz:
Jase2985: but what was the problem?

the OP inadvertently holding their wallet to close? thats not a vendor/bank problem

its not an issue with the technology

just dont put your paywave cards near the reader


It is a problem if they weren't holding it that close. Maybe the reader has a fault and is able to read the card far further away than it should. Going from what the OP said the wallet didn't come close to the reader at all. The problem is that it could have been another shopper whose wallet was close to the reader and got charged instead. Or it may have been debited from an account which they didn't want charging to, or it may have been a company card which they had been lent. So you can never assume someones circumstances.


Read all his separated posts again

It showed his GEM card on the receipt. And was distracted during time of purchase. Has STILL not said where the wallet was at the time of 'attempting' to swipe non NFC ASB (if infact that was in the hand at the time, he was "distracted")


I would  say 90 percent of people don't look at their receipt, until at least they get home, or when they reconcile their statements. Those people that do, probably only check it to see if the amount is right, But those people that do check do slow down the ones at the till, especially when they find an error which happens more times than you may think..

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  # 1031613 26-Apr-2014 15:39
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I still can't get over the fear people have of contactless transactions. Especially here, on geekzone.

Mind you, we do have a thread about chemtrails :-/

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  # 1031615 26-Apr-2014 15:42
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I love it. I'm more worried about putting my pin in where it can be seen as that then gives access to heaps of cash in the account potentially. Especially when the pin pad is on a floppy fixed mount that you have to stabilize with your other hand so can't cover it like at countdown and many bars.




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  # 1031623 26-Apr-2014 15:52
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richms: I love it. I'm more worried about putting my pin in where it can be seen as that then gives access to heaps of cash in the account potentially. Especially when the pin pad is on a floppy fixed mount that you have to stabilize with your other hand so can't cover it like at countdown and many bars.


I can't wait for it on my phone!

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  # 1031624 26-Apr-2014 16:01
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Infact the only problem I have with paywave is the lack of universal support of it. Mind you with all the dairys still rocking those dial up terminals which only take the card on their side I think we are a long way off getting NFC capable ones in every place.

Perhaps if the banks were to disconnect any retailer with these dinosaur terminals we would see some better uptake.




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  # 1031627 26-Apr-2014 16:05
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Ragnor:

In a world where many things are moving to using 2 factor authentication, a 0 authentication system like pay wave seems absurd.

At the least you should have to hit the ok button on the terminal or you should be able to turn paywave on and off on the card on demand.

Being able to pay without intending too (even by accident) is terrible human interface design.

Isn't paywave a one factor authentication for less than $80? You have to have the card to make the transaction. And it's two factor for over $80 (card + pin)?

I'd be more worried about someone taking note of my card details and making online purchases than getting my card and making purchases in stores with paywave. It's much easier for them to get your card details if you have to get your card out of your wallet.

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  # 1031636 26-Apr-2014 16:16
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richms: Infact the only problem I have with paywave is the lack of universal support of it. Mind you with all the dairys still rocking those dial up terminals which only take the card on their side I think we are a long way off getting NFC capable ones in every place.

Perhaps if the banks were to disconnect any retailer with these dinosaur terminals we would see some better uptake.

Would be good to see this technology move to standard Debit cards too. I doubt the Dairy's are going to embrace this technology whilst it's still only Credit Card transactions.





Chorus has spent $1.4 billion on making their xDSL broadband network faster and even more now as they are upgrading their rural Conklins. If your still stuck on ADSL or VDSL, why not spend $195 on a master filter install to make sure you are getting the most out of your connection?
I install - Naked DSL, DSL Master Splitters, VoIP, data cabling and general computer support for home and small business.
Rural Broadband RBI installer for Ultimate Broadband and Full Flavour

 

Need help in Auckland, Waikato or BoP? Click my email button, or email me direct: [my user name] at geekzonemail dot com


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