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  Reply # 1064784 13-Jun-2014 11:24
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For all the complaining from the football bashers (I love how people often make it out as though cheats only happen in football - yes, I am sure no rugby, basketball, [insert name of any other team game] player has tried to con the referee ever), the Croat defender fouled the Brazilian. Was the dive exaggerated? Absolutely. But it's time for defenders to actually learn to defend using positioning and not their hands. As for those asking why referees don't penalise the penalty box grabbers during corners, when A and B are grabbing each other as good as you can get, how can you call that a foul by the defender only? In those cases, play is halted and both players are told to behave. How can anyone actually argue with that?

I am surprised, however, that no one has mentioned how pathetically useless that Croatian goalkeeper was. Thomas Sorensen (Danish keeper) in the last WC or the one before was pretty bad but this guy truly takes the cake. All three goals were quite savable but this guy didn't look remotely competent as a shot stopper during the whole game.



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  Reply # 1064836 13-Jun-2014 12:33
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We can put some positive spin on the game - Brazil did score 4 goals. :)

Generally the rules are for fouls that one must touch the ball first, and one must not allows to 'hold' the player using any part of the body - also includes holding clothing.  There is also a pushing rule that can be applied.

What I found interesting is Brazils use of taking shots (not just free kicks) from outside the goal box - especially when the opposition was using a line of 4 defence.  I think to counter that, teams will need to use two lines of 3 in a box formation on the defensive side.   However using the long shots over the defence is perhaps a technique that the Europeans can adopt a but more.







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  Reply # 1064864 13-Jun-2014 13:11
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My TAB account is $10 poorer now




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  Reply # 1065049 13-Jun-2014 17:12
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That was never a penalty, the ref was suckered into it by Brazilian theatrics.  He wasn't held, pushed or otherwise impeded from getting the ball so there was no foul.  

I had my head in my hands as soon as I saw it as I just knew that the NZ media/rugby rednecks would leap on it as another excuse to bash the beautiful game.

And yeah whoever made the comment about the Croatian keeper I think was right.  He was very slow to get down to the ball.

Bring on Spain v Holland tomorrow!  

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  Reply # 1065057 13-Jun-2014 17:23
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Anyone try the TAB Challenge?
Would be nice to see how far I can go but only can dream about $5mil

so far so good 1 correct n 63 matches to go! :$

Now only if the manager has 2 challenges, able to change the penalty outcome.

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  Reply # 1065062 13-Jun-2014 17:25
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Philosophical question: if you cheat but don't get caught is it still cheating?

It goes on in most sports I'd suggest.
football: diving to milk penalties
cricket: appeals for caught behind
rugby: whatever goes on in scrums and rucks
etc.





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  Reply # 1065064 13-Jun-2014 17:26
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dejadeadnz: For all the complaining from the football bashers (I love how people often make it out as though cheats only happen in football - yes, I am sure no rugby, basketball, [insert name of any other team game] player has tried to con the referee ever), the Croat defender fouled the Brazilian. Was the dive exaggerated? Absolutely. But it's time for defenders to actually learn to defend using positioning and not their hands. As for those asking why referees don't penalise the penalty box grabbers during corners, when A and B are grabbing each other as good as you can get, how can you call that a foul by the defender only? In those cases, play is halted and both players are told to behave. How can anyone actually argue with that?


In basketball, one point doesn't win you the game, in soccer it does.

I stand by my statement that the team that is best at play acting will win the world cup. That team is probably Brazil. That's all there is to it.



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  Reply # 1065065 13-Jun-2014 17:28
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  Reply # 1065069 13-Jun-2014 17:31
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people can watch the clip at the bottom and decide for themselves - I have no problems with that. I see it as a dive.

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  Reply # 1065092 13-Jun-2014 17:46
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by definition it was probably a penalty with the holding contact, but that doesn't mean he also didn't dive to sell it better. I thought it was very soft.

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  Reply # 1065093 13-Jun-2014 17:48
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Joker97: You can crap on and on about how it's a dive (and hardly anyone disputes it). What you're not addressing is the reality that by the laws of the game, that was a stone cold penalty. A lot of commentators (usually English and former players for the most overrated national team, aka England) harp on about how some fouls aren't enough to make someone go down or whatever. Whether a foul is a foul is NOT determined by such nonsense. If you want the game to be a particular way, that's your prerogative; you aren't free to make up reality.

The Fifa website has a write up on the rules of the game. Relevant bits are excerpted below:

LAW 14 - THE PENALTY KICK Introduction   A penalty kick is awarded against a team that commits one of the ten offences for which a direct free kick is awarded, inside its own penalty area and while the ball is in play.

LAW 12 - FOULS AND MISCONDUCT Direct free kick   A direct free kick is awarded to the opposing team if a player commits any of the following seven offences in a manner considered by the referee to be careless, reckless or using excessive force:

 

  • kicks or attempts to kick an opponent
  • trips or attempts to trip an opponent
  • jumps at an opponent
  • charges an opponent
  • strikes or attempts to strike an opponent
  • pushes an opponent
  • tackles an opponent
  A direct free kick is also awarded to the opposing team if a player commits any of the following three offences:

 

  • holds an opponent

The Croatian player clearly was careless and held the Brazilian striker. It was a classic example of someone trying to rescue his own poor positioning and anticipation.




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  Reply # 1065100 13-Jun-2014 17:57
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so we should see around 1 penalty every 2 corners, right?

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  Reply # 1065101 13-Jun-2014 17:58
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[and a free kick for the defending team for the other 50% of corners]

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  Reply # 1065112 13-Jun-2014 18:16
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joker97: so we should see around 1 penalty every 2 corners, right?


Are you just being deliberately obtuse or are you one of those boring, rugby mad/football hating types who just go and rage on about football when you know nothing about it, just for the sake of looking after some sort of insecurity or just to stir the pot? For goodness sake, if you are going to participate in a DISCUSSION forum, at least extend people the courtesy of reading what they post, rather than just use the forum as a means of repeating your own broken record.

I've already answered this point of yours HOURS ago:

As for those asking why referees don't penalise the penalty box grabbers during corners, when A and B are grabbing each other as good as you can get, how can you call that a foul by the defender only? In those cases, play is halted and both players are told to behave. How can anyone actually argue with that?


And there's a fundamental disconnect that I find very disturbing about people who whinge about this sort of playacting/exaggeration of ACTUAL fouls. Why do you guys never criticise the fact that some defender resorts to actually cheating by defending using his hands? Is cheating okay when you are defending? And in case anyone decides to deliberately misread what I wrote, I am not asserting that every defensive foul is an act of cheating. If you mis-time a tackle whilst making an honest attempt at that ball, I have no problems with that. I have a problem, however, with people basically using hands deliberately to impede attackers to make up for poor positioning or to make up for skill deficiencies.

If you want proper games of football, it's all the more important that we focus on eliminating this sort of stuff. The dive didn't change the game -- Lovren's crappy defence did. I am glad the referee picked this up, since this sort of foul almost always goes unpunished in the English Premier League.





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  Reply # 1065120 13-Jun-2014 18:30
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so in soccer, you have to exaggerate a foul, otherwise it's not given.
sometimes two fouls cancel each other out!
I still don't get this in the modern era, but hey, the teams spend 4 years of their lives training for it - I hope the Asians and the Aussies learn how to dive to get better results!

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