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  Reply # 1067378 17-Jun-2014 12:16
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Of course, my job is to be courteous and helpful which I will always be (at least I hope so) - but I am not a PR robot and I occasionally also suffer from engineers' tact, much to my dismay when I re-read a post at a later stage. I wanted to say though, that our colleagues on here are also our friends. When someone unjustly accuses my friends of behaving a certain way when they are just being who they are, then sometimes I may be defensive. It is only human. Every post we make on here is moderated and we do sometimes edit and change what we say because it isn't what we were 'supposed to say'. I'm sorry if we seem arrogant or unprofessional, it is definitely not the intention - we're here because we want to help. It is incredibly hard to convey 'tone' on the Internet and just not a skill everybody has acquired.




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  Reply # 1067379 17-Jun-2014 12:17
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BigPipeNZ:
ripdog: I'd just like to chime in here to agree that the ISP/telco employees on Geekzone really do make this website an incredibly valuable resource, so thank you!

To freitasm I suggest that the employee tag should be optional-per-post (defaulting off?) and made much more visible. This way, even newbies will know when a post is in an official capacity, and more experienced members will know when employees are making personal-opinion posts with no guesswork. This is how it works on reddit, mods and admins choose what capacity to post in for every post.

Might be a considerable amount of work, though. Just an idea.


the other option (which would require zero coding to do on Mauricio's behalf)  would be that people simply create two accounts.  
One for posting as themselves, and one for posting on behalf of the company

e.g.    "TimA" for posting as himself  (not tagged as vodafone)  and then  "TimA@Vodafone"  or something like that  when posting on behalf of Vodafone (and tagged with Vodafone so we know he is genuine).



That would just be confusing as in some thread people switch between personal and professional opinion.







 
 
 
 


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  Reply # 1067382 17-Jun-2014 12:21
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hio77:
BigPipeNZ:
ripdog: I'd just like to chime in here to agree that the ISP/telco employees on Geekzone really do make this website an incredibly valuable resource, so thank you!

To freitasm I suggest that the employee tag should be optional-per-post (defaulting off?) and made much more visible. This way, even newbies will know when a post is in an official capacity, and more experienced members will know when employees are making personal-opinion posts with no guesswork. This is how it works on reddit, mods and admins choose what capacity to post in for every post.

Might be a considerable amount of work, though. Just an idea.


the other option (which would require zero coding to do on Mauricio's behalf)  would be that people simply create two accounts.  
One for posting as themselves, and one for posting on behalf of the company

e.g.    "TimA" for posting as himself  (not tagged as vodafone)  and then  "TimA@Vodafone"  or something like that  when posting on behalf of Vodafone (and tagged with Vodafone so we know he is genuine).



although, multiple accounts are so much effort!

theres the loging in, and the logging out, that would take so much time out of the day! :c


yeah, at least 5 seconds to log out and back in again.  Think of the wasted time!  tongue-out




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  Reply # 1067386 17-Jun-2014 12:24
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BigPipeNZ:

yeah, at least 5 seconds to log out and back in again.  Think of the wasted time!  tongue-out


And the children! Won't somebody think of the children!?

//Sorry, had to be done. :-D




iPad Air + iPhone SE + 2degrees 4tw!

These comments are my own and do not represent the opinions of 2degrees.


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  Reply # 1067391 17-Jun-2014 12:31
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BigPipeNZ: 
yeah, at least 5 seconds to log out and back in again.  Think of the wasted time!  tongue-out


my session timed out my my phone yesterday, and i was forced to log back in.


3G was a little sluggish, and it took more like 10 seconds!

the pain i tell ya!


jokes aside though..

for people that struggle with the line, a second account would be the better option although... having the same name across both would lead people to see it as the same person regardless of it being separate accounts. - and then your back to being associated to the company anyway! 




#include <std_disclaimer>

 

Any comments made are personal opinion and do not reflect directly on the position my current or past employers may have.


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  Reply # 1067401 17-Jun-2014 12:47
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dejadeadnz:
KiwiNZ:
I think it's time to stop signalling out individuals. If anyone has an issue with a particular post report it so Staff can deal with it. If anyone has an issue with a member in general email Forum management and address it with them.


Your constant, reflexatory and almost unyielding defence of certain ISP-staffers and their behaviour on account of their being helpful to users on here doesn't take into account the reality that it's not just Jonathan18 who has pointed out that the individuals concerned are often unnecessarily rude and combative. Seriously, I'd like to think that adult, mature people would be somewhat perturbed by having one's posts deleted by the admin for name-calling or trolling a thread in your own company's sub-forums bad enough to have the admin lock it, purely by way of limited examples of what certain people have done on here. 

I for one agree with Jonathan18's post and others have also agreed with his sentiments previously elsewhere on this forum. Given that this is a thread about users' expectations of others posting with a company tag, I consider Jonathan18's post to be more than fair. But beyond the issue of who agrees with whom, everyone here is an adult -- people can stand on their own two feet or even consider some honest feedback. I don't think it's quite right for you to single out someone as targeting individuals in an unwarranted way when he quite frankly isn't.




I have to chime in and say I too agree with the comments above.  You only have to be a regular here to see both the good and poor responses from the users in question.  I believe manners are just as important online as they are in person.  The pure arrogance that some display here far outweighs the help they provide.  But that is my opinion.

Take Mauricio for example.  He must have put up with a whole heap of crap over the lifetime of GZ so far.  But I cannot recall even one arrogant, pissy post from him that made me think "did he really just say that?".  Sure he has often had to be firm, but there are ways to deal with people and this should be it.

What I find most frustrating is that I cannot call them up on it with a like response.  If I was to do so then I'd be banned.  I find GZ far to valuable to be excluded.  I just wish some people would be a little more courteous here, and respond to people as they would if they were talking to them face to face.

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  Reply # 1067402 17-Jun-2014 12:51
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dejadeadnz:
KiwiNZ:
I think it's time to stop signalling out individuals. If anyone has an issue with a particular post report it so Staff can deal with it. If anyone has an issue with a member in general email Forum management and address it with them.


Your constant, reflexatory and almost unyielding defence of certain ISP-staffers and their behaviour on account of their being helpful to users on here doesn't take into account the reality that it's not just Jonathan18 who has pointed out that the individuals concerned are often unnecessarily rude and combative. Seriously, I'd like to think that adult, mature people would be somewhat perturbed by having one's posts deleted by the admin for name-calling or trolling a thread in your own company's sub-forums bad enough to have the admin lock it, purely by way of limited examples of what certain people have done on here. 

I for one agree with Jonathan18's post and others have also agreed with his sentiments previously elsewhere on this forum. Given that this is a thread about users' expectations of others posting with a company tag, I consider Jonathan18's post to be more than fair. But beyond the issue of who agrees with whom, everyone here is an adult -- people can stand on their own two feet or even consider some honest feedback. I don't think it's quite right for you to single out someone as targeting individuals in an unwarranted way when he quite frankly isn't.




I was not stating anything about the quoted member but merely citing the post as the last example of what I was referring to.




Mike
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The views stated in my posts are my personal views and not that of any other organisation.

 

 It's our only home, lets clean it up then...

 

Take My Advice, Pull Down Your Pants And Slide On The Ice!

 

 


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  Reply # 1067410 17-Jun-2014 13:13
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Demeter: Of course, my job is to be courteous and helpful which I will always be (at least I hope so) - but I am not a PR robot and I occasionally also suffer from engineers' tact, much to my dismay when I re-read a post at a later stage. I wanted to say though, that our colleagues on here are also our friends. When someone unjustly accuses my friends of behaving a certain way when they are just being who they are, then sometimes I may be defensive. It is only human. Every post we make on here is moderated and we do sometimes edit and change what we say because it isn't what we were 'supposed to say'. I'm sorry if we seem arrogant or unprofessional, it is definitely not the intention - we're here because we want to help. It is incredibly hard to convey 'tone' on the Internet and just not a skill everybody has acquired.


I am sorry to say it but this "defence" doesn't wash with me. The things that others have taken issue with company-staffers doing (and it's not just VF reps admittedly) aren't just issues of matters of tone. Calling people names, trolling people's threads for help (these two examples are ones that I've personally witnessed), or making pointless "my 70 year old nana" jokes/remarks" (see the thread another user referred to) in a thread where someone is politely asking for help -- to the point where the admin yet again pointed it out as being inappropriate -- aren't just manifestations of a lack of skills or minor personality weaknesses. It's plain rude and inappropriate behaviour, behaviour that most other Geekzoners do not engage in.

And by way of actual feedback, in the second case I cited, I got sufficiently concerned to have e-mailed a certain telco's social media manager about their own staff trolling a thread. And after action was presumably taken, only a few days later someone from that same company - who also trolled the thread but to a lesser extent - had his post calling someone a name deleted by an admin. All of this is coming from someone who can be blunt (there is no choice when you work in financial/legal compliance sometimes, especially if you are talking to types like investment bankers who love to push things) and has experience dealing with exceptionally difficult people in difficult settings (think of child abusers and bankrupts in court both as a witness and lawyer).

IMO, certain levels of civility aren't optional if you are minded to be nice and intend to earn some respect.


Satch: What I find most frustrating is that I cannot call them up on it with a like response.  If I was to do so then I'd be banned.  I find GZ far to valuable to be excluded.  I just wish some people would be a little more courteous here, and respond to people as they would if they were talking to them face to face.


And I think there's the reality as well that you don't wish to sink to those levels. And good on your for not doing so.

          





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  Reply # 1067416 17-Jun-2014 13:21
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Demeter: (snip) I wanted to say though, that our colleagues on here are also our friends. When someone unjustly accuses my friends of behaving a certain way when they are just being who they are, then sometimes I may be defensive. It is only human. (snip)


Would it then be fair to say that the person unjustly accusing your friends might just be being who they are too?  This doesn't sound fair to me just as the defensive approach doesn't sound fair either.

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  Reply # 1067421 17-Jun-2014 13:26
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dejadeadnz:
And by way of actual feedback, in the second case I cited, I got sufficiently concerned to have e-mailed a certain telco's social media manager about their own staff trolling a thread. And after action was presumably taken, only a few days later someone from that same company - who also trolled the thread but to a lesser extent - had his post calling someone a name deleted by an admin. All of this is coming from someone who can be blunt (there is no choice when you work in financial/legal compliance sometimes, especially if you are talking to types like investment bankers who love to push things) and has experience dealing with exceptionally difficult people in difficult settings (think of child abusers and bankrupts in court both as a witness and lawyer).





This is an issue yes, people trolling on a forum. What i have a problem with is when its made the employers business when it isnt. People that email the employer saying that "I feel hurt cause he trolled me on the internet and he works for xxx and im telling you now"

People do that quite a bit. If its on a level where they are disgracing a company or their own company then of course you could speak with a forum admin who can raise it with the company or the company themselves.

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  Reply # 1067422 17-Jun-2014 13:27
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There's also the issue of how far does one want to constantly allow the defence of "He's just being who he is" to go. I think the admins and moderators have done pretty well in terms of balancing the desire of users to receive help from some people, an understanding of certain individuals' personalities, other users' right not to be abused, and other things by essentially deleting/locking the most offensive stuff and then just pointing out the less egregious things and letting social pressure/feedback take hold as well. As someone who has moderated industry-type forums as well, there certainly is another approach (it was one that I and my fellow moderators favoured) -- we would edit offensive stuff by company reps/known staffers with feedback remarks like "Offensive comments deleted. Your manager/spouse would probably be embarrassed for you if they saw what you wrote".


TimA: Allow me to introduce you to the well-known employment law concept that personal behaviour by an employee can be taken into account by a company in launching disciplinary proceedings, which can of course range from things like a nice talking to, to formal warnings, and even dismissal. The Employment Court has clearly articulated this principle and no amount of you claiming that "It's personal and has nothing to do with someone's work" will change the reality that when known company staffers abuse others online, there is a possibility that a reasonable employer will be entitled to take action because the context of the behaviour is liable to bring the company into disrepute. Mere disclaimers online to the effects that "My views are my own!" etc do not overturn such well-known principles. Google Hallwright v Forsyth Barr.










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  Reply # 1067427 17-Jun-2014 13:30
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Satch: Would it then be fair to say that the person unjustly accusing your friends might just be being who they are too?  This doesn't sound fair to me just as the defensive approach doesn't sound fair either.


"Offence can never be given, only taken."




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  Reply # 1067436 17-Jun-2014 13:36
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So you're implying that you can take offence at others falsely accusing your friends in public on here but if others take offence it's a choice that they make or that it's merely a subjective interpretation of what was written?




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  Reply # 1067439 17-Jun-2014 13:37
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This thread has just turned into people whinging, freitasm has  said if you have an issue with a user then report them. This thread should be locked.







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  Reply # 1067440 17-Jun-2014 13:39
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dejadeadnz: So you're implying that you can take offence at others falsely accusing your friends in public on here but if others take offence it's a choice that they make or that it's merely a subjective interpretation of what was written?





I don't see where anyone has implied that




Mike
Retired IT Manager. 
The views stated in my posts are my personal views and not that of any other organisation.

 

 It's our only home, lets clean it up then...

 

Take My Advice, Pull Down Your Pants And Slide On The Ice!

 

 


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