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Ultimate Geek
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  Reply # 1069571 19-Jun-2014 21:08
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kiwirock: 
As for the words socialist in other posts, come on, most political parties including National have very socialist policies. I don't like the word socialist used as a dividing factor between people anymore than convervatists or coporatocracy as the current way of doing things.


It doesn't matter what you like or don't like, or whether you think that there are fairies at the bottom of your garden.  Socialism is a real thing.  It's a political ideology with its roots in the 18th century and has a major impact on the world ever since.  It has resulted in royal families being massacred, civil wars and more mundanely the establishment of the trade union movement.  People have been using it correctly, and you may even find that some of them come from families who have been displaced by war or political unrest.  I appreciate the point you're trying to make but making it that way just insults people's intelligence and history.

Onward
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  Reply # 1069573 19-Jun-2014 21:13
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NZ has been a socialist country to various degrees for many decades, to most part it has been positive.




Mike
Retired IT Manager. 
The views stated in my posts are my personal views and not that of any other organisation.

 

 It's our only home, lets clean it up then...

 

Take My Advice, Pull Down Your Pants And Slide On The Ice!

 

 


 
 
 
 


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Geek
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  Reply # 1069589 19-Jun-2014 22:09
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Glassboy:
kiwirock: 
As for the words socialist in other posts, come on, most political parties including National have very socialist policies. I don't like the word socialist used as a dividing factor between people anymore than convervatists or coporatocracy as the current way of doing things.


It doesn't matter what you like or don't like, or whether you think that there are fairies at the bottom of your garden.  Socialism is a real thing.  It's a political ideology with its roots in the 18th century and has a major impact on the world ever since.  It has resulted in royal families being massacred, civil wars and more mundanely the establishment of the trade union movement.  People have been using it correctly, and you may even find that some of them come from families who have been displaced by war or political unrest.  I appreciate the point you're trying to make but making it that way just insults people's intelligence and history.


Oh good grief. Back to Whaleoil with ye.

Please. I come here to get away from the sort of one-eyed garbage you are spouting.

I really don't know what to make of the IP. If it is just a rich man's vanity project, why on earth has someone of the calibre of Laila Harre aligned herself with it?

I also would have thought there were much greater issues facing NZ than internet cost. Is this really going to get the disenchanted youth interested in politics/voting? We won't really know until election night. Landline-based polls are unlikely to show us. A pressure group rather than a political party makes more sense to me. Is the 99 MP Party still going?

I would like to see a new party focussed on Quality of Life. We seem to have forgotten about that in our collective drive to serve the economy, rather than have the economy serve us.

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Ultimate Geek
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Reply # 1069619 19-Jun-2014 23:12
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Glassboy: Short answer:  amusement. 

...Generally net neutrality and privacy don't fit well with a socialist agenda.



Net neutrality and privacy dont fit well with any capitalist agenda either. After all it's Big corporates that are working through politics, the courts and financially in the USA  and elsewhere to end net neutrality.

As for individual and group privacy, it's non existent in capitalist societies... Those societies (including New Zealand) wouldn't function very well at all with real privacy for individuals and groups...

As for the 'Internet Party' IMO they're a tech version of the McGillyGuddy Serious party (are they still around, or am I showing my age?) 

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Ultimate Geek
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  Reply # 1069621 19-Jun-2014 23:24
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I really don't know what to make of the IP. If it is just a rich man's vanity project, why on earth has someone of the calibre of Laila Harre aligned herself with it?


Surely you've heard of Bob Jones????

The New Zealand Party was a political party operating in New Zealand. It was established by millionaire property tycoon Bob Jones, and promoted both social and economic liberalization. The New Zealand Party's motto was "Freedom and Prosperity", and it has sometimes been classified as libertarian (although that term is not particularly common in New Zealand). It failed to win any seats in Parliament, but is sometimes credited with causing the defeat of Robert Muldoon's National Partygovernment in the 1984 election by splitting the vote (i.e. as a spoiler).

Some commentators see the modern ACT New Zealand party as being the successor of the New Zealand Party, and Bob Jones is counted among ACT's supporters. Not everyone would agree with the link, however, and there are a number of notable differences in policy between the two. For example, ACT's foreign and defence policies are directly contrary to New Zealand Party policy, with ACT advocating increased defence expenditure and the strengthening of traditional alliances. ACT has never won as many votes as the New Zealand Party gained in 1984.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_Zealand_Party

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  Reply # 1069630 19-Jun-2014 23:46
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Demeter: I kind of cringe at the thought that Dotcom's on the Herald's list of top 10 trusted people in NZ.

Source: http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=11276813


Sorry Demeter, I really respect all your posts as you speak clearly and gracefully even when disagreeing but...

Did you even read that link? Kim Dotcom was 99th/100 NOT top 10 even though they plastered his gaffe all over it... Unless "someone kicked them where they should be kicked" and they changed it after you read?

"Politicians didn't fare well in the trustworthy people stakes either with Hone Harawira, Kim Dotcom, Michael Laws, David Cunliffe and Winston Peters at the bottom of the list."

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  Reply # 1069633 19-Jun-2014 23:48
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KiwiNZ:
charsleysa: So no one has actually put forth a legitimate reason not to vote for the Internet Party (apart from the fact that they signed up with Mana).

They have policies on other topics which actually sound good for New Zealand.

As for their policy of giving every household an internet connection, it's basically a modern version of giving every household a free simple landline with everything else being extras.


I have a legitimate reason(s) not to vote for them, I disagree with their policies, I do not like their people and do not like their partnership.


So you disagree that every home should have access to the internet (and fast too), You agree that we should be spied on, You disagree that we should become a world leader in technology and our economy should move towards technology instead of dairy, You disagree that tertiary education should be free, like it used to be (john keys education was free), you disagree that we should move towards smarter cities and homes, and have cleaner and greener energy, and green data centers

You agree that this man should be primeminister again? 

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  Reply # 1069647 19-Jun-2014 23:57
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Yabanize: I think they deserve a chance, Most of the people that are bashing them are opposition parties or haven't read their policies, Or they just don't like dotcom (who isnt even a member) also there is no policy in there to stop him being extradited. If he is extradited the party will go on
They are doing cool new things like having a party forum and incubator to discuss what their policies should be etc. And it would be great to see other people in parliment apart from rich old men
http://internet.org.nz


Actually, as a teacher I really like what they are proposing for schools, a real switch to current education practices and a true shakeup to teaching in a digital community, with a focus on teacher development and a deeper integration into students different potentials being recognised and individually addressed.
+1 to the possibility of parents and teachers driving the path of education rather than "education ministers" with highly paid but out of touch consultants!

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  Reply # 1069650 20-Jun-2014 00:01
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PhantomNVD:
Yabanize: I think they deserve a chance, Most of the people that are bashing them are opposition parties or haven't read their policies, Or they just don't like dotcom (who isnt even a member) also there is no policy in there to stop him being extradited. If he is extradited the party will go on
They are doing cool new things like having a party forum and incubator to discuss what their policies should be etc. And it would be great to see other people in parliment apart from rich old men
http://internet.org.nz


Actually, as a teacher I really like what they are proposing for schools, a real switch to current education practices and a true shakeup to teaching in a digital community, with a focus on teacher development and a deeper integration into students different potentials being recognised and individually addressed.
+1 to the possibility of parents and teachers driving the path of education rather than "education ministers" with highly paid but out of touch consultants!


Thank you. Someone who actually read the policies rather then hating because it was a rich german guys idea, and that he put $3 million into it.

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Ultimate Geek
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  Reply # 1069652 20-Jun-2014 00:23
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Glassboy:
It doesn't matter what you like or don't like, or whether you think that there are fairies at the bottom of your garden.  Socialism is a real thing.  It's a political ideology with its roots in the 18th century and has a major impact on the world ever since.  It has resulted in royal families being massacred, civil wars and more mundanely the establishment of the trade union movement.  People have been using it correctly, and you may even find that some of them come from families who have been displaced by war or political unrest.  I appreciate the point you're trying to make but making it that way just insults people's intelligence and history.


Correct it doesn't matter what I think, and that's a good way of thinking.

Perhaps I'm not on the same page due to not conveying my thoughts on politics more? Are you suggesting I'm for or against socialism? I think you'd be surprised either way.

I would say you can't insult a rational, intelligent mind or wisdom. You can only insult a mindset or perhaps emotional based decision or opinion. The exact reason why insults fly in parliment, there's hardly any wisdom or refrain from kindergarten behaviour on parliment TV debates at times because modern political behaviour is way to emotional.

I observe that most "ism's" are a tool used to divide and conquer (paint something black and white), which in a political environment is to help break down or destroy governance by throwing a label on the current system in order to belittle it an shift power to those that want it more. I don't believe government should be about power struggles, it should be about the grey area, it should be about self reflection and sacrafice in order to do better not about dividing and always agreeing to disagree. Although that in its self has a time and place... or then things wouldn't eventually balance themselves out.

However we vote for feeling better about our opinions not reality unfortunately and puff some politicians up with power and pride, both of which come before a fall so the landscape of politicians keep changing.

I'm just making observations on what was used to class political parties in the past "ism's" isn't the way young mindsets today necessarily think little own getting them to engage in politics. So that's why I'm on the fence post with the I.P. as to whether they will be sucessful or not or their influence. Their statements are very confusing. I don't think they are all about clear cut cheaper Internet (while that is one large policy of theirs). I think their focus on being driven also by the Internet as a real tool for shaping politics however is a fitting concept in todays culture even if not what they orginally intended may come from it.

I don't sit on either side of any government though, I sit on the fence and see benefits in both, and idiots in both. Mostly why I hardly ever vote. Politics isn't really worth the time and effort to one generation. I think the I.P. though might help to re-spark the interest in that generation. If it does, who knows in who's favour it will be in politically speaking. However, I certainly hope it will help make government more transparent and accessable to those that vote in the first place.

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  Reply # 1069664 20-Jun-2014 00:28
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PhantomNVD:

Actually, as a teacher I really like what they are proposing for schools, a real switch to current education practices and a true shakeup to teaching in a digital community, with a focus on teacher development and a deeper integration into students different potentials being recognised and individually addressed.
+1 to the possibility of parents and teachers driving the path of education rather than "education ministers" with highly paid but out of touch consultants!


Very true. I hope what they acheive brings decision making closer to the classroom using more modern technology and colabrotive ways of people being able to shape their own future, both kids and teachers alike.

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  Reply # 1069681 20-Jun-2014 05:58
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Yay another political discussion, whereby people put forward their opposing viewpoints (generally loaded with insults as the discussion progresses), then those who put forward the least compelling points/insults all agree at the end to change their viewpoint, agree with the winning side, and vote accordingly.



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  Reply # 1069684 20-Jun-2014 06:34
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I think its a great asset to National along with David "Don Liu who?" Cunliffe.

I think even staunch Labour supporters don't like the idea of having to form a government with the likes of Winston, Hone and Dot Com.

The internet party is also bad for the greens as it is watering down their voting base which is where a lot of the "stick it to the man" voters usually hang out. Now they have an even bigger "stick it to the man" party to jump in with.

Has anyone stopped to think what our government and country would be like if this motley crew actually managed to get into power? 




When you live your life on Twitter and Facebook, and are only friends with like minded people on Twitter and Facebook, you are not living in the real world. You are living in a narcissistic echo chamber.

 


My thoughts are my own and are in no way representative of my employer.


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  Reply # 1069713 20-Jun-2014 08:23
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They seem to be the Alliance Party reheated, minus those who jumped to Green.
It seems strange for failed socialists to be joining up with a fugitive millionaire who has made his money from dubious practices; usually they re-emerge under a green flag of convenience, like Russel Norman has
In keeping with others of their ilk, they seem to confuse "free" with "someone else paying for it" and are offering lots of "free" stuff to attract voters

I think they're mostly harmless and could actually strengthen the position of National in this election by making the prospect of a left-wing coalition even less attractive to a lot of voters

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  Reply # 1069720 20-Jun-2014 08:42
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My opinion is the same as it's always been:

Kim Dotcom ahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha

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