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830 posts

Ultimate Geek
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  Reply # 1070798 20-Jun-2014 10:07
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KiwiNZ:
Glassboy:
KiwiNZ:
Glassboy:
KiwiNZ: 

What is Socialism in your view?


You can find the answer to that question in a whole host of 100 level university text books.


You have written 100 text books .... impressive

my question was "What is Socialism in your view?


With all due respect, if I want to have a discussion about the political forces that have shaped the last three centuries I generally do it with a) a beer, and b) people who are knowledgeable on the subject.


As usual a passive aggressive response from you  to a cilvil question.

Just as aside you do not know me, my beliefs, background or qualifications, I will let you in on one aspect, I was raised to respect others and to use common manners, give it a try sometime.


You're not demonstrating either manners or an understanding of what passive aggressive means.

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  Reply # 1070815 20-Jun-2014 10:09
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I dont mind the Internet Party, if they can get enough votes then they are just as valid the other polical parties. If we look back NZ has had a number of smaller silly parties which livens things up.

If their policies are so rediculous why dont the mainstream parties ignore them.

Because they are seen as a threat in some way because their policies appeal to some people but isnt that the idea behind democracy

Like one of the earlier posters I am amused by what happens when someone with a bit of cash goes against the established parties. Remember Bob Jones punching the TVNZ reporter on the banks of the Tongariro river for landing his helicopter on the bank while Jones was fishing.

I doubt whether the issue of funding polical campaigns (Banks) would have come up without Dot.com

The only political party I get nervious about the the Conservatives.

As an aetheist I dont want laws passed on the preferences of one religous group who believe in one brand of sky fairy. (When we know nz gods were Ranginui and Papatuanuku)


A.

 
 
 
 


Onward
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  Reply # 1070822 20-Jun-2014 10:17
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Glassboy:
KiwiNZ:
Glassboy:
KiwiNZ:
Glassboy:
KiwiNZ: 

What is Socialism in your view?


You can find the answer to that question in a whole host of 100 level university text books.


You have written 100 text books .... impressive

my question was "What is Socialism in your view?


With all due respect, if I want to have a discussion about the political forces that have shaped the last three centuries I generally do it with a) a beer, and b) people who are knowledgeable on the subject.


As usual a passive aggressive response from you  to a cilvil question.

Just as aside you do not know me, my beliefs, background or qualifications, I will let you in on one aspect, I was raised to respect others and to use common manners, give it a try sometime.


You're not demonstrating either manners or an understanding of what passive aggressive means.


You are right I was actually writing down right aggressive, but on that bye bye with the lack of an ignore function you sir are on virtual ignore. 




Mike
Retired IT Manager. 
The views stated in my posts are my personal views and not that of any other organisation.

 

 It's our only home, lets clean it up then...

 

Take My Advice, Pull Down Your Pants And Slide On The Ice!

 

 


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  Reply # 1070827 20-Jun-2014 11:17
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KiwiNZ: You are right I was actually writing down right aggressive, but on that bye bye with the lack of an ignore function you sir are on virtual ignore. 


Ah, but that is coming...





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  Reply # 1070831 20-Jun-2014 11:24
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I thought that they were OK until they got into bed with Mana. Now not the slightest bit interested in them..




Regards,

Old3eyes


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  Reply # 1070870 20-Jun-2014 11:44
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afe66: The only political party I get nervious about the the Conservatives.

As an aetheist I dont want laws passed on the preferences of one religous group who believe in one brand of sky fairy. (When we know nz gods were Ranginui and Papatuanuku).


Why do people assume that social conservatives are all reglious? The Conservative Party is a secular conservative movement in the same way that NZ First is.

In fact, Colin Craig hasn't been to church for years and Christine Rankin has openly stated that she would not be involved with the party if it had a religious agenda.

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Ultimate Geek
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  Reply # 1070871 20-Jun-2014 11:44
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freitasm:
KiwiNZ: You are right I was actually writing down right aggressive, but on that bye bye with the lack of an ignore function you sir are on virtual ignore. 


Ah, but that is coming...



The one thing I learnt about kill files from Usenet is those people who loudly declare they're adding someone to them never ever does.  Climbing up on your high horse is just another form of trolling.  Still I'm sure there are a significant portion of people who will quietly use them to remove some noise :-)

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  Reply # 1070875 20-Jun-2014 11:48
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Glassboy: Short answer:  amusement. 

Longer answer:  Generally net neutrality and privacy don't fit well with a socialist agenda.  The most frightening calls for curtailing Internet freedom in NZ have been from the left.  The world's remaining socialist counties generally have heavily filtered and monitored internet access.  It will also be interesting to see how the Internet-Mana party copes with the Internet as a force to disrupt and replace traditional production and distribution.  

I'm amused that they're cannibalising the Greens vote tho.  But on the bright side they may encourage the young to vote, but they're likely in that aspect to be like the Greens, you vote for them the first time and then you realise it's not in your, the country's, or the environment's interest to do so again. 



NZ has a socialist agenda by world standards whether it be National or Labour in charge.
The scandinavian countries are heavily socialist - proudly so in fact.
Likewise Canada, Australia and the UK are socialist countries.
What is this 'curtailing' that socialist countries are imposing?

If you have China and North Korea in mind when making your statement I think you should research a little more on what socialism actually is. I think you may be mixing Marxism–Leninism with socialism.






Nothing is impossible for the man who doesn't have to do it himself - A. H. Weiler

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  Reply # 1070876 20-Jun-2014 11:50
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jonathan18:
geekiegeek: Has anyone stopped to think what our government and country would be like if this motley crew actually managed to get into power? 


That presupposes that any minor coalition partner has the power to force the major party to support all of their policies. This classic claim of the tail wagging the dog is way over-stated, especially given how MMP has played out in NZ ever since its introduction.

The reality is minor parties typically (to continue the canine analogy) get thrown a few small bones for them to maintain their support of the government and some relatively minor ministerial roles, typically in the areas of most concern to that party. Hence such statements as above and one earlier regarding the Legalise Canabis Party really miss the point of (or, more accurately, the actual power wielded by) single-issue or topic-focused parties. Personally, I feel this is one of the positive outcomes of MMP, not a problem of the system.

Bring on the implementation of the Electoral Commission's recommendations, I say. The move to abolish the coat-tail rule and decrease the threshold to 4% are overdue. Collins' decision to not proceed with these changes is a sad example of self-serving politicisation.


Wasn't the anti-smacking bill brought in by a minor party?

I think it also depends on the minor party in question. Hone strikes me as the type that will hold up the major parties policies unless he gets his way where as the greens are more willing to toe the line in order to get a few things over the line here and there. 




When you live your life on Twitter and Facebook, and are only friends with like minded people on Twitter and Facebook, you are not living in the real world. You are living in a narcissistic echo chamber.

 


My thoughts are my own and are in no way representative of my employer.


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  Reply # 1070878 20-Jun-2014 11:51
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As far as I can make out, Dotcom is disruptive and antiestablishment. He has a personal vendetta against John Key and is prepared to spend any amount of $$ to try to topple him. The whole internet party thing is a fancy smoke screen.

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Ultimate Geek
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  Reply # 1070881 20-Jun-2014 11:53
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robjg63: 
NZ has a socialist agenda by world standards whether it be National or Labour in charge.
The scandinavian countries are heavily socialist - proudly so in fact.
Likewise Canada, Australia and the UK are socialist countries.
What is this 'curtailing' that socialist countries are imposing?

If you have China and North Korea in mind when making your statement I think you should research a little more on what socialism actually is. I think you may be mixing Marxism–Leninism with socialism.



I don't disagree on that political assessment.  By way of illustration of my point, look at the filtering of Internet in Australia and the powers of the ACMA.

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  Reply # 1071028 20-Jun-2014 14:51
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alasta:
afe66: The only political party I get nervious about the the Conservatives.

As an aetheist I dont want laws passed on the preferences of one religous group who believe in one brand of sky fairy. (When we know nz gods were Ranginui and Papatuanuku).


Why do people assume that social conservatives are all reglious? The Conservative Party is a secular conservative movement in the same way that NZ First is.

In fact, Colin Craig hasn't been to church for years and Christine Rankin has openly stated that she would not be involved with the party if it had a religious agenda.




My concerns stem from the convervative party being essentially the party of Collin Craig so I am curious as to what he thinks rather than just "Policy" of the party.

So I thought I would do some more googling to see whether my impression of him from reading the general media hold up.

Below are some things I came accross. I'm a little reluctant to do this for fear it will turn into a heated discussion which often on the internet gets nasty,
but I suppose I should give some indication of why I am concerned.


NZ Women are promiscusous
I'm married I live my life a certain way
Sex outside committed relationship is wrong
I'm a very strong, committed christian,but not a church goer
Had weekly prayers in his office
Not support gay marriage.
I dont think think majority of NZ want to 'redefine marriage'  http://www.nbr.co.nz/article/im-not-church-goer-colin-craig-ck-118705


"A belief in the equality of all New Zealanders and that all citizens, regardless of race, gender or religion, have equal rights and privileges"

      No reference to sexual orientation being part of freedom of the individual on conservative party website, although sexual orientation is mentioned in anti discrimination law.
                         (this is on the conservative party website)

He is a creationist according to some who have spoken to him.

http://www.listener.co.nz/commentary/the-internaut/is-conservative-party-leader-colin-craig-a-creationist/


Tea Party Movement in US is "Absolutely neccessary"

Q. "Do you believe the world was created in 7 days? "Dont know, I wasnt there. Seems there are lots of theories and opinions." 

         Why not a yes or no answer?

Q. "Do you believe in creationism should be taught in schools as a valid alternative to evolution", "This is the predominant world view (although in various forms). As above schools are meant to educate and so I think it should also be taught."

         So yes to creationism being taught in schools but probably not support Ranginui and Papatuanuku version of creation as they must be wrong as heathen myth.

Q. on Abortion.
   "Our abortion policy is to bring in “full and informed consent” as practiced in Western European nations. We think that this policy could gain support to become law." 

Bit surprised by this bit. But then again which western european countries. Ireland bit different from Sweden.

http://yournz.org/2013/11/16/colin-craig-answers-nbr/





A.



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Ultimate Geek
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  Reply # 1071072 20-Jun-2014 15:46
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afe66:
Tea Party Movement in US is "Absolutely neccessary"

Q. "Do you believe the world was created in 7 days? "Dont know, I wasnt there. Seems there are lots of theories and opinions." 

         Why not a yes or no answer?

Q. "Do you believe in creationism should be taught in schools as a valid alternative to evolution", "This is the predominant world view (although in various forms). As above schools are meant to educate and so I think it should also be taught."

         So yes to creationism being taught in schools but probably not support Ranginui and Papatuanuku version of creation as they must be wrong as heathen myth.

Q. on Abortion.
   "Our abortion policy is to bring in “full and informed consent” as practiced in Western European nations. We think that this policy could gain support to become law." 

Bit surprised by this bit. But then again which western european countries. Ireland bit different from Sweden.

http://yournz.org/2013/11/16/colin-craig-answers-nbr/




Yeah most politicians are always that inch open to public pressure. Look how fast the I.P. party starting taking over. 

If our government was a religous party I'll leave NZ before the sun goes down before the high and mighty start slapping new classes of people and more division in to society.

There aren't in my personal view christians, there are only professed christians followed up by their actions. Then there's politicians... I'm not much of a christian these days I quit church and a crack at being a minister years ago from the hyprocritcal mess that religion is. I didn't get the impression man was sopose to go lording it over another person in political persuits!

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Ultimate Geek
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  Reply # 1071074 20-Jun-2014 15:47
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To date I agree with their policies. However, I believe that the Mana and Maori Party are racist tumors in the modern government, so had to seriously stop and consider their alliance with Mana. In the end I decided that all of NZ politics is dirtied with corruption and racism (just like everywhere else really), so you have to just vote for the lesser of all the evils so to speak. For this reason I will be giving them my party and electoral vote this year; as for future years, their policies will have to continue to appeal (I'm one of those weird people that reads all the party websites before elections) to me sense of right.

I believe the South Park episode where they have to vote for a school mascot is an appropriate analogy of the situation this year.

 

Edit Reason: Glaring typo >>




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  Reply # 1071089 20-Jun-2014 16:01
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alasta:
afe66: The only political party I get nervious about the the Conservatives.

As an aetheist I dont want laws passed on the preferences of one religous group who believe in one brand of sky fairy. (When we know nz gods were Ranginui and Papatuanuku).


Why do people assume that social conservatives are all reglious?


Because social conservatism is a religion.
There's no other rational explanation for why some people would want to impose their conservative values on everybody else, legislated - and therefore able to be legally enforced,  if resisted then ultimately through initiating the use of force - without some belief system that they have which grants them the moral right to force others what to do what they tell them to do.  They are much the same as hard-line communists - which should also be considered a religion IMO.

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