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  Reply # 1072176 22-Jun-2014 19:29
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It's a good thing that this thread is in the 'off topic' section because it's way off topic. 




Mike
Retired IT Manager. 
The views stated in my posts are my personal views and not that of any other organisation.

 

 It's our only home, lets clean it up then...

 

Take My Advice, Pull Down Your Pants And Slide On The Ice!

 

 


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  Reply # 1072178 22-Jun-2014 19:34
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Fred99: Look for it yourself - then disprove what I've said.  I'm not going searching for a needle (which I don't believe exists) in a haystack just to refute your claim that in NZ someone could sue for non-payment of dowry or breach of some agreement if an engagement to marry is called off.
No sorry - I won't PM you my real name.  You make me feel uncomfortable.


So just to recap, you're representing yourself as an expert in New Zealand law, but you won't identify yourself and you are asking me to substantiate your [legal] opinion.  I suspect I do make you uncomfortable, because you wonder if I'm just another one of the voices in your head.


Mod Note MM: Friends don't let friends quote irresponsibly.

 
 
 
 


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  Reply # 1072187 22-Jun-2014 19:39
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^Please be civil to other members, and if you insist on using the Quote feature, do it responsibly by editing your quote down to directly respond to the post in question.

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  Reply # 1072206 22-Jun-2014 20:07
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Glassboy:

So just to recap, you're representing yourself as an expert in New Zealand law, but you won't identify yourself and you are asking me to substantiate your [legal] opinion.  I suspect I do make you uncomfortable, because you wonder if I'm just another one of the voices in your head.


I'm not representing myself as an expert in anything at all.
It's an unqualified opinion - that if someone tried to sue for non-payment of dowry, or for their fiancee rescinding an engagement, through the NZ justice system, then it would get thrown out of court.  
In the case of dowry demands, it would probably fall under the The Domestic Violence Act 1995, Part 1, Section 3, as psychological/emotional, financial or economic abuse, or spiritual violence (and probably all) of those.
As would the case be of any (woman in particular) being held under the thumb by any partner, married or not, due to any attempt to coerce then into submitting to any religious custom (or other cult activity etc) that attempted to control how they behaved against their free will.

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  Reply # 1072208 22-Jun-2014 20:09
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KiwiNZ: It's a good thing that this thread is in the 'off topic' section because it's way off topic. 


Ahem... yes.
I'm getting old - I indulge in "thread drift" even when I'm talking to myself these days.

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  Reply # 1072220 22-Jun-2014 20:20
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Fred99: 
I'm not representing myself as an expert in anything at all.
It's an unqualified opinion - that if someone tried to sue for non-payment of dowry, or for their fiancee rescinding an engagement, through the NZ justice system, then it would get thrown out of court.  
In the case of dowry demands, it would probably fall under the The Domestic Violence Act 1995, Part 1, Section 3, as psychological/emotional, financial or economic abuse, or spiritual violence (and probably all) of those.
As would the case be of any (woman in particular) being held under the thumb by any partner, married or not, due to any attempt to coerce then into submitting to any religious custom (or other cult activity etc) that attempted to control how they behaved against their free will.


Sorry I'm a bit confused, you seem to be replying to me, but I have never claimed that dowries were legal in New Zealand.  And to the second part of your post I'm pretty sure that where we have instances of marriage or similar under duress, it's not the domestic violence act that is used.  I seem to recall the last case I heard reported resulted in a prosecution under the crimes act, but then I'm not a lawyer  and I'm old and forgetful so i may be remembering it wrong.

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  Reply # 1072221 22-Jun-2014 20:25
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Glassboy: I seem to recall the last case I heard reported resulted in a prosecution under the crimes act, but then I'm not a lawyer  and I'm old and forgetful so i may be remembering it wrong.

Crimes Act 1961, s208(a).

Edit: Added link.

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  Reply # 1072225 22-Jun-2014 20:31
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Glassboy:

Sorry I'm a bit confused, you seem to be replying to me, but I have never claimed that dowries were legal in New Zealand.


Glassboy:

Traditional marriage is an economic act. Why do you think dowry and inheritance are so important everywhere. Under English law a proposal was a verbal contract, that's why in things like Jane Austin novels it's such a big deal. If proposals were rescinded courts could and did impose quite harsh financial penalties. 


I believe that my response to that, suggesting that archaic English law may not be applicable to laws in NZ in the 21st century, wasn't accepted by you.

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  Reply # 1072233 22-Jun-2014 20:45
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Fred99: 

I believe that my response to that, suggesting that archaic English law may not be applicable to laws in NZ in the 21st century, wasn't accepted by you.


Yes I did not accept that assertion because it is incorrect. We have a fair amount of archaic English law, still on the books.  When making a judgement where the statues are unclear, Judges examine case law from both here and from similar jurisdictions.  A Judge could go back to the Magna Carta if they were so inclined.

The more salient point is that NZ law (acts, regulations, case law) is a thing that has real substance and can be examined.  People's opinions and feelings expressed on a forum aren't law and generally aren't fact.  Everyone is entitled to have an opinion, but you should be willing to substantiate it when called on it.

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  Reply # 1072238 22-Jun-2014 21:04
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Meanwhile back at the Internet Party they had jelly and pavlova wink




Mike
Retired IT Manager. 
The views stated in my posts are my personal views and not that of any other organisation.

 

 It's our only home, lets clean it up then...

 

Take My Advice, Pull Down Your Pants And Slide On The Ice!

 

 


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  Reply # 1072241 22-Jun-2014 21:09
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KiwiNZ: Meanwhile back at the Internet Party they had jelly and pavlova wink

Someone went back for seconds. Five times.

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  Reply # 1072256 22-Jun-2014 22:15
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Where do you download Pavlova? Or is is under copyright protection?

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  Reply # 1072262 22-Jun-2014 22:35
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1eStar: Where do you download Pavlova? Or is is under copyright protection?


As well as being the worst software pirates in the world, Australians are also the worst Pavlova pirates in the world.  I want to know what the Internet Party is going to do about.  What exactly is their policy on Pavlova piracy?

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  Reply # 1072451 23-Jun-2014 10:57
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Dratsab:
KiwiNZ: Meanwhile back at the Internet Party they had jelly and pavlova wink

Someone went back for seconds. Five times.


Does that make it fifths?

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Master Geek
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Reply # 1072468 23-Jun-2014 11:13
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gehenna: ^Please be civil to other members, and if you insist on using the Quote feature, do it responsibly by editing your quote down to directly respond to the post in question.


Yes pardon the pun.

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