ARRRGH!! All aboard mateys.... so what do you call a pirate?

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#1071024 20-Jun-2014 14:45

hashbrown:
freitasm: As before, it is no different than you buying a book overseas and bringing to New Zealand really. The local distributors might not like it but they have no recourse.

We don't need to overcome a technical restriction to buy the book though. There is an argument you are defeating a technical restriction by using a VPN/DNS service, and therefore violating the DMCA.

Sometimes we do, if the shipper doesn't ship directly to New Zealand. Does that mean it is illegal to use a freight forwarder service like YouShop?

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gzt

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#1071025 20-Jun-2014 14:49

hashbrown:
freitasm: As before, it is no different than you buying a book overseas and bringing to New Zealand really. The local distributors might not like it but they have no recourse.

We don't need to overcome a technical restriction to buy the book though. There is an argument you are defeating a technical restriction by using a VPN/DNS service, and therefore violating the DMCA.

DCMA is not New Zealand law. Therefore your extradition papers must be posted from the United States, or delivered by black helicopter.

hashbrown

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#1071029 20-Jun-2014 14:51

dclegg:
hashbrown:
freitasm: As before, it is no different than you buying a book overseas and bringing to New Zealand really. The local distributors might not like it but they have no recourse.

We don't need to overcome a technical restriction to buy the book though. There is an argument you are defeating a technical restriction by using a VPN/DNS service, and therefore violating the DMCA.

Sometimes we do, if the shipper doesn't ship directly to New Zealand. Does that mean it is illegal to use a freight forwarder service like YouShop?

The D in DMCA is for digital. So no, I doubt it covers book shipping.

dclegg

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#1071036 20-Jun-2014 15:10

hashbrown:
dclegg:
hashbrown:
freitasm: As before, it is no different than you buying a book overseas and bringing to New Zealand really. The local distributors might not like it but they have no recourse.

We don't need to overcome a technical restriction to buy the book though. There is an argument you are defeating a technical restriction by using a VPN/DNS service, and therefore violating the DMCA.

Sometimes we do, if the shipper doesn't ship directly to New Zealand. Does that mean it is illegal to use a freight forwarder service like YouShop?

The D in DMCA is for digital. So no, I doubt it covers book shipping.

I didn't suggest that the DMCA would cover the book analogy, but posed the question of whether it is similarly considered illegal to circumvent export restrictions.

And in the case of DMCA, would a US law even be able to be applied to non-US residents (honest question)?

hashbrown

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#1071037 20-Jun-2014 15:10

gzt:
hashbrown:
freitasm: As before, it is no different than you buying a book overseas and bringing to New Zealand really. The local distributors might not like it but they have no recourse.

We don't need to overcome a technical restriction to buy the book though. There is an argument you are defeating a technical restriction by using a VPN/DNS service, and therefore violating the DMCA.

DCMA is not New Zealand law. Therefore your extradition papers must be posted from the United States, or delivered by black helicopter.

Or you get the full rubber glove treatment at border security on your next trip to the US :)

I'm not seriously suggesting this would ever be enforced, just that it's another shade of grey to consider for those who say they aren't breaking any laws.

For the record, I stream Netflix.

StarBlazer

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#1071060 20-Jun-2014 15:39

dclegg:
hashbrown:
dclegg:
hashbrown:
freitasm: As before, it is no different than you buying a book overseas and bringing to New Zealand really. The local distributors might not like it but they have no recourse.

We don't need to overcome a technical restriction to buy the book though. There is an argument you are defeating a technical restriction by using a VPN/DNS service, and therefore violating the DMCA.

Sometimes we do, if the shipper doesn't ship directly to New Zealand. Does that mean it is illegal to use a freight forwarder service like YouShop?

The D in DMCA is for digital. So no, I doubt it covers book shipping.

I didn't suggest that the DMCA would cover the book analogy, but posed the question of whether it is similarly considered illegal to circumvent export restrictions.

And in the case of DMCA, would a US law even be able to be applied to non-US residents (honest question)?

Yes - well at least in Australia and yes if DotCom gets sent too.

Procrastination eventually pays off.

JimmyH

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#1071267 20-Jun-2014 19:36

Which ones are legal and which are illegal has been well covered by Freitasm, so I won't expand on that dimension. But as to whether I consider these to be morally wrong (and therefore something I wouldn't contemplate), my view is:

1- Ripping a CD borrowed from a friend? Yes
2- Ripping a hired DVD/Blu-ray? Yes
3- Ripping a DVD/Blu-ray you have purchased? (ie for playback on a tablet/mobile phone/media server) No
4- Downloading/torrenting the latest movie blockbuster? Yes*
5- Downlaoding/torrenting the latest episode of your favourite TV show THAT PLAYS HERE ON FREEVIEW, but hasn't aired here yet? Yes
6- Downlaoding/torrenting an episode of a show THAT PLAYS HERE ON FREEVIEW that has already aired here? Depends
7- Downloading/torrenting any episode of your fovourite TV show THAT PLAYS HERE ON SKY? Yes
8- Using PAID FOR overseas TV/Movie streaming services? (Netflix, Hulu, Amazon etc.) No
9- Using FREE overseas TV streaming services? (BBC iPlayer, ITV Player etc.) No
10- Downloading music videos (or any videos) from YouTube? No

* While I haven't done this, ever, I conceivably *might* consider it if it was something I was very keen on and there was there was no feasible way to pay for legit access despite trying - for instance:

it involved a film that was unlikely to air here and wasn't readily available on Amazon et al either
it involved an old film that was unobtainable here and wasn't readily available on Amazon et al either, or
it was a film that I wanted to see but the local versions were butchered by the NZ Censor and/or broadcaster/distributor before being allowed to be shown.

Hypothetical at this stage, and I am very anti-torrenting where there is a legitimate way to obtain something. But these are the circumstances under which I might be tempted.

EDIT: Punctuation

Dratsab

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#1071438 21-Jun-2014 09:18

Getting back to the original question: Personally, I don't consider any of those examples to be piracy, although most of them feature illegality. My definition of [internet] piracy would be illegally copying software or audio/visual content then using the internet to make it available to others.

PhantomNVD

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#1073044 24-Jun-2014 01:36

Dratsab: Getting back to the original question: Personally, I don't consider any of those examples to be piracy, although most of them feature illegality. My definition of [internet] piracy would be illegally copying software or audio/visual content then using the internet to make it available to others.

as above plus if used to make money (AKA selling fake movie disks) though do they even bother doing this anymore?

hashbrown

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#1073096 24-Jun-2014 08:53

PhantomNVD:
Dratsab: Getting back to the original question: Personally, I don't consider any of those examples to be piracy, although most of them feature illegality. My definition of [internet] piracy would be illegally copying software or audio/visual content then using the internet to make it available to others.

as above plus if used to make money (AKA selling fake movie disks) though do they even bother doing this anymore?

Modern piracy is a multi-tiered operation. No one person/entity meets the entire criteria of being "the" pirate. Instead they each profit from piracy in small ways.

- Selling HDCP decoders
- Running an advertising driven indexing site.
- Running a hosting company that turns a blind eye.
etc.

Also, by making it about money you ignore the other benefits built into some models, such as faster download speeds the more you upload.

gzt

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#1073108 24-Jun-2014 09:13

The whole 'piracy' thing is just really silly and over the top. Btw, there should be a #11 - watching/listening unauthorised uploads on youtube. I'm not sure why that is never added to the outrageously silly 'losses from piracy statistics'.

MikeB4

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#1073118 24-Jun-2014 09:28

It does not matter what one may feel about piracy( I don't really like the term, the subject is too big for a single wrap around) the definitions are contained in legislation that either makes it a crime making transgressors liable for criminal prosecution or breaches rights and privileges granted by law making transgressors liable for civil legal proceedings.

hashbrown

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#1073429 24-Jun-2014 13:45

KiwiNZ: It does not matter what one may feel about piracy( I don't really like the term, the subject is too big for a single wrap around) the definitions are contained in legislation that either makes it a crime making transgressors liable for criminal prosecution or breaches rights and privileges granted by law making transgressors liable for civil legal proceedings.

We live in a democracy
=> Laws get changed if people feel strongly enough about them
=> Feelings about what constitutes piracy matter.

Coil

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#1073430 24-Jun-2014 13:48

hashbrown:
KiwiNZ: It does not matter what one may feel about piracy( I don't really like the term, the subject is too big for a single wrap around) the definitions are contained in legislation that either makes it a crime making transgressors liable for criminal prosecution or breaches rights and privileges granted by law making transgressors liable for civil legal proceedings.

We live in a democracy
=> Laws get changed if people feel strongly enough about them
=> Feelings about what constitutes piracy matter.

Money > Everything else.
What democracy?

JimmyH

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#1074503 25-Jun-2014 19:12

hashbrown:
PhantomNVD:
Dratsab: Getting back to the original question: Personally, I don't consider any of those examples to be piracy, although most of them feature illegality. My definition of [internet] piracy would be illegally copying software or audio/visual content then using the internet to make it available to others.

as above plus if used to make money (AKA selling fake movie disks) though do they even bother doing this anymore?

Modern piracy is a multi-tiered operation. No one person/entity meets the entire criteria of being "the" pirate. Instead they each profit from piracy in small ways.

- Selling HDCP decoders
- Running an advertising driven indexing site.
- Running a hosting company that turns a blind eye.
etc.

Also, by making it about money you ignore the other benefits built into some models, such as faster download speeds the more you upload.

Why do you assume that any business selling HDCP decoders is just profiting from piracy? Those things have legitimate legal uses as well and, at least in this country, aren't illegal.

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