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  #1077099 30-Jun-2014 15:26
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This is worth a look:

http://www.justice.govt.nz/services/access-to-justice/jury-service-1






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  #1077104 30-Jun-2014 15:36
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I remember serving on a jury at the end of 2002. Back then district court judges were getting 200 grand a year. No wonder jurors get paid a pittance, there's no money left to pay them.




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  #1077278 30-Jun-2014 19:34
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last time i got picked for jury duty i escaped/ was excused for the next three years.

tongue-out

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  #1077281 30-Jun-2014 19:38
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To those who have posted that you feel the payment for Jury service is too low are you willing to pay increased taxes to fund such an increase?




Mike
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The views stated in my posts are my personal views and not that of any other organisation.

 

He waka eke noa


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  #1077285 30-Jun-2014 19:52
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KiwiNZ: To those who have posted that you feel the payment for Jury service is too low are you willing to pay increased taxes to fund such an increase?

 

If they had less jurors, which I believe is proposed they wouldn't need to. But yes, I would be for more government money to go to paying jurors a reasonable wage. It is not as though jurors are going to take advantage either. It would also mean that juroies are better represented with our peers. If barristers and judges, and probably all other staff who work in the courts probably get paid more, then I don't see what the problem is paying them more.

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  #1077286 30-Jun-2014 19:56
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They need the excess numbers to cover other court cases running during the same week.

Plus, personally I'm happy with the amount paid as my employer continues to pay me regardless.

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  #1077287 30-Jun-2014 19:57
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MadEngineer: Why should you get paid more?

http://www.courts.dotag.wa.gov.au/R/reimbursement.aspx


Australian Government policy and law does not apply in NZ




Mike
Retired IT Manager. 
The views stated in my posts are my personal views and not that of any other organisation.

 

He waka eke noa


 
 
 
 


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  #1077288 30-Jun-2014 19:58
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KiwiNZ:
MadEngineer: Why should you get paid more?

http://www.courts.dotag.wa.gov.au/R/reimbursement.aspx


Australian Government policy and law does not apply in NZ
hence why I deleted the post as I thought I was looking at the kiwi .govt site. Took you a while to submit your reply! :p

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  #1077292 30-Jun-2014 20:06
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MadEngineer:
KiwiNZ:
MadEngineer: Why should you get paid more?

http://www.courts.dotag.wa.gov.au/R/reimbursement.aspx


Australian Government policy and law does not apply in NZ
hence why I deleted the post as I thought I was looking at the kiwi .govt site. Took you a while to submit your reply! :p


Just saw that, yep I am a slow typing one handed




Mike
Retired IT Manager. 
The views stated in my posts are my personal views and not that of any other organisation.

 

He waka eke noa


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  #1077320 30-Jun-2014 20:27
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I think courts should begin implying an agreement to pay your normal wage when selected for jury service into employment contracts. Or more people should bargain to put them in their own contracts. Or unions on their behalf.

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  #1077326 30-Jun-2014 20:42
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MadEngineer:
KiwiNZ:
MadEngineer: Why should you get paid more?

http://www.courts.dotag.wa.gov.au/R/reimbursement.aspx


Australian Government policy and law does not apply in NZ
hence why I deleted the post as I thought I was looking at the kiwi .govt site. Took you a while to submit your reply! :p


For what it's worth, you'll note that the government of Australia requires that employers continue to pay you, and do not fire you/make you redundant while you are on jury service.  New Zealand law does not require your employer to.  That's my point.  If it's your "civic duty" to attend jury service, it should be up to the government to ensure that you should be no worse off than if you didn't.  Either the government pays you the amount you'd otherwise be paid, or it should be your employer's "civic duty" to pay you while you're on jury service.  You'll note though that the Australian government actually even pays "average of the last 12 months" to self-employed people who are called to jury service, and pays vastly less to unemployed people than the NZ government does.

And no, KiwiNZ, it's not an exaggeration.  I personally know someone who got tied up in a 6 month jury trial.  If our employer at the time hadn't continued to pay him as if he was still working, that would have been financially devastating.  Potentially even bankruptcy inducing if he had a mortgage.

KiwiNZ: To those who have posted that you feel the payment for Jury service is too low are you willing to pay increased taxes to fund such an increase?


Nope, not at all.  If the Australian government can afford to pay average daily wage to jurors, then so can the NZ government.  And while their income tax is a bit higher than ours, their GST (the real income earner for the government) is 5% lower.  Maybe NZ needs to introduce CGT?

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  #1077330 30-Jun-2014 20:49
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Kyanar:
MadEngineer:
KiwiNZ:
MadEngineer: Why should you get paid more?

http://www.courts.dotag.wa.gov.au/R/reimbursement.aspx


Australian Government policy and law does not apply in NZ
hence why I deleted the post as I thought I was looking at the kiwi .govt site. Took you a while to submit your reply! :p


For what it's worth, you'll note that the government of Australia requires that employers continue to pay you, and do not fire you/make you redundant while you are on jury service.  New Zealand law does not require your employer to.  That's my point.  If it's your "civic duty" to attend jury service, it should be up to the government to ensure that you should be no worse off than if you didn't.  Either the government pays you the amount you'd otherwise be paid, or it should be your employer's "civic duty" to pay you while you're on jury service.  You'll note though that the Australian government actually even pays "average of the last 12 months" to self-employed people who are called to jury service, and pays vastly less to unemployed people than the NZ government does.

And no, KiwiNZ, it's not an exaggeration.  I personally know someone who got tied up in a 6 month jury trial.  If our employer at the time hadn't continued to pay him as if he was still working, that would have been financially devastating.  Potentially even bankruptcy inducing if he had a mortgage.

KiwiNZ: To those who have posted that you feel the payment for Jury service is too low are you willing to pay increased taxes to fund such an increase?


Nope, not at all.  If the Australian government can afford to pay average daily wage to jurors, then so can the NZ government.  And while e I looked their income tax is a bit higher than ours, their GST (the real income earner for the government) is 5% lower.  Maybe NZ needs to introduce CGT?


Last time I looked outside this was not Australia.




Mike
Retired IT Manager. 
The views stated in my posts are my personal views and not that of any other organisation.

 

He waka eke noa


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  #1077347 30-Jun-2014 21:22
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KiwiNZ: 

Last time I looked outside this was not Australia.


I am not going to bother wasting my time debating the point with you if you're just going to dismiss every reasonable point that doesn't fit your world view.

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  #1077384 30-Jun-2014 21:47
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Making the employer continue to pay someone on jury service might be tolerable for larger employers, who can average the occasional cost across a large workforce. But it could be crippling for many smaller businesses. A small business with (say) two employees that had to pay full salary for (say) a six month trial, while they weren't working or bringing any money in to the business, could be enough to drive the business under in many cases.

I think payment should be made by the Crown and should be fair - ie a juror shouldn't expect to make on it, but neither should they be seriously out of pocket. Basing it on average earnings (as per IRD declarations) for the last 12 or 24 months, with some allowance for actual reasonable expenses, seems fair. While justice is important, the judges, lawyers and court officers aren't working for charity or minimum wage, why should the jurors be expected to?

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  #1077398 30-Jun-2014 21:58
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JimmyH: Making the employer continue to pay someone on jury service might be tolerable for larger employers, who can average the occasional cost across a large workforce. But it could be crippling for many smaller businesses. A small business with (say) two employees that had to pay full salary for (say) a six month trial, while they weren't working or bringing any money in to the business, could be enough to drive the business under in many cases.

I think payment should be made by the Crown and should be fair - ie a juror shouldn't expect to make on it, but neither should they be seriously out of pocket. Basing it on average earnings (as per IRD declarations) for the last 12 or 24 months, with some allowance for actual reasonable expenses, seems fair. While justice is important, the judges, lawyers and court officers aren't working for charity or minimum wage, why should the jurors be expected to?


So true. Perhaps because NZ is largely made up of small businesses, could be why we haven't followed Australia. But the government do often use Australia as an example for bringing in certain changes. When I heard jury service being discussed on the radio, I recall them saying that NZ courts are so far behind due to the lack of jurors to serve. One reason is because people can't afford to serve, so they ask to be excused. But if there was no financial burden, then more people would carry out their civic duty. That certainly seems logical, but not sure who actually makes these decisions so they follow logic.

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