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  Reply # 1076897 30-Jun-2014 10:41
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BTR: Jury service has always been a bee in my bonnet, I've been called for the last 3 years. What rubs me up the wrong way is that a law abiding person has to take time off work because of some filthy scum criminal and I can't remember 100% but pretty sure if you do manage to get some compensation for your time is below minimum wage... so you are being screwed over by the criminal and the govt.


HAHA That would be an opinion if you are ever forced to go, you should make heard. Ensures you get contempt of court at the least :) 

Pretty much along the lines of, if the police arrested them, they are guilty. If not of this, of something else, and it all balances out in the long term :) 


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Reply # 1076902 30-Jun-2014 10:54
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BTR: ... some filthy scum criminal ...


Biased much? The defendant is innocent until it's proven that she is a filthy scum criminal. wink

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  Reply # 1076903 30-Jun-2014 10:55
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BTR: Jury service has always been a bee in my bonnet, I've been called for the last 3 years. What rubs me up the wrong way is that a law abiding person has to take time off work because of some filthy scum criminal and I can't remember 100% but pretty sure if you do manage to get some compensation for your time is below minimum wage... so you are being screwed over by the criminal and the govt.


Having to attend jury service at a a maximun of once every 2 years is not that hard (if you have had Jury servive with in 2 years you can get out of it )

Its not always a filthy scum criminal, thats why I wouldnt want you on any jury of mine, it is innocent until proven guilty.

Most reasonable work places will pay you your normal wages while you attend jury service.

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  Reply # 1076909 30-Jun-2014 11:09
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Why even acknowledge receipt of a jury summons?
They are sent by standard mail so how can they prove that you ever received it?

We live out in the country and letter boxes are always getting smashed up and mail has gone missing often.




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  Reply # 1076912 30-Jun-2014 11:15
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CYaBro: Why even acknowledge receipt of a jury summons?
They are sent by standard mail so how can they prove that you ever received it?

We live out in the country and letter boxes are always getting smashed up and mail has gone missing often.


When dealing with such organisations I have found courtesy and  honesty is the best policy.




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  Reply # 1076956 30-Jun-2014 11:56
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BTR: Jury service has always been a bee in my bonnet, I've been called for the last 3 years. What rubs me up the wrong way is that a law abiding person has to take time off work because of some filthy scum criminal and I can't remember 100% but pretty sure if you do manage to get some compensation for your time is below minimum wage... so you are being screwed over by the criminal and the govt.


This, ladies and gentlemen, is why some of us with professional experience of actually doing trials are so wary of jury trials. BTR, to describe your opinion as idiotic would be an insult to actual idiots.



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  Reply # 1076957 30-Jun-2014 11:59
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sxz: The law is not an ass.  If all the people with important jobs could write in and get off Jury duty, all Jury's would be comprised of retiree's, beneficiaries and stay-at-home mums and dads.  That's why they are getting more and more forceful with you - they do not want to give you a get out of jury free pass, you are an important part of the cross section of society.  If you were accused of something would you want a full cross section of society, including those intelligent hard workers?  

Can you tell me a better way of doing it?


Yes, absolutely.  The law can make damn sure that I'm still paid while I'm doing jury service so that I don't end up months behind on my bills and in danger of being evicted because I'm expected to "do my civic duty" - my landlord wouldn't accept "sorry, I have no money because of jury service", nor would my phone company or Pak n Save/Countdown.  Either the court needs to pay my standard daily rate per day or my employer needs to be legally obligated to pay me while I'm doing it.  Otherwise, the law is indeed an ass, it can go to hell, and I will dodge "jury service" every chance I get.

I would also like that if I go to hospital, I don't get told "sorry, we're not sure what disease you have - the pathologist got stuck on a 6 month murder trial so he's not able to look at your results".  The law is idiotic.

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  Reply # 1077040 30-Jun-2014 14:00
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throbb:
BTR: Jury service has always been a bee in my bonnet, I've been called for the last 3 years. What rubs me up the wrong way is that a law abiding person has to take time off work because of some filthy scum criminal and I can't remember 100% but pretty sure if you do manage to get some compensation for your time is below minimum wage... so you are being screwed over by the criminal and the govt.


Having to attend jury service at a a maximun of once every 2 years is not that hard (if you have had Jury servive with in 2 years you can get out of it )

Its not always a filthy scum criminal, thats why I wouldnt want you on any jury of mine, it is innocent until proven guilty.

Most reasonable work places will pay you your normal wages while you attend jury service.




Ok filthy scum may have been over the top and yes people should be considered innocent until proven guilty BUT you have to wonder how did such a person end up in that predicament......

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  Reply # 1077042 30-Jun-2014 14:05
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Kyanar:
sxz: The law is not an ass.  If all the people with important jobs could write in and get off Jury duty, all Jury's would be comprised of retiree's, beneficiaries and stay-at-home mums and dads.  That's why they are getting more and more forceful with you - they do not want to give you a get out of jury free pass, you are an important part of the cross section of society.  If you were accused of something would you want a full cross section of society, including those intelligent hard workers?  

Can you tell me a better way of doing it?


Yes, absolutely.  The law can make damn sure that I'm still paid while I'm doing jury service so that I don't end up months behind on my bills and in danger of being evicted because I'm expected to "do my civic duty" - my landlord wouldn't accept "sorry, I have no money because of jury service", nor would my phone company or Pak n Save/Countdown.  Either the court needs to pay my standard daily rate per day or my employer needs to be legally obligated to pay me while I'm doing it.  Otherwise, the law is indeed an ass, it can go to hell, and I will dodge "jury service" every chance I get.

I would also like that if I go to hospital, I don't get told "sorry, we're not sure what disease you have - the pathologist got stuck on a 6 month murder trial so he's not able to look at your results".  The law is idiotic.


The majority of Jury service is for one week, long trials are not that common in NZ. Your reasoning above is exaggeration to the max 




Mike
Retired IT Manager. 
The views stated in my posts are my personal views and not that of any other organisation.

 

 It's our only home, lets clean it up then...

 

Take My Advice, Pull Down Your Pants And Slide On The Ice!

 

 


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  Reply # 1077043 30-Jun-2014 14:06
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BTR:
throbb:
BTR: Jury service has always been a bee in my bonnet, I've been called for the last 3 years. What rubs me up the wrong way is that a law abiding person has to take time off work because of some filthy scum criminal and I can't remember 100% but pretty sure if you do manage to get some compensation for your time is below minimum wage... so you are being screwed over by the criminal and the govt.


Having to attend jury service at a a maximun of once every 2 years is not that hard (if you have had Jury servive with in 2 years you can get out of it )

Its not always a filthy scum criminal, thats why I wouldnt want you on any jury of mine, it is innocent until proven guilty.

Most reasonable work places will pay you your normal wages while you attend jury service.




Ok filthy scum may have been over the top and yes people should be considered innocent until proven guilty BUT you have to wonder how did such a person end up in that predicament......


I think you're only digging your hole deeper.

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  Reply # 1077046 30-Jun-2014 14:08
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BTR:
throbb:
BTR: Jury service has always been a bee in my bonnet, I've been called for the last 3 years. What rubs me up the wrong way is that a law abiding person has to take time off work because of some filthy scum criminal and I can't remember 100% but pretty sure if you do manage to get some compensation for your time is below minimum wage... so you are being screwed over by the criminal and the govt.


Having to attend jury service at a a maximun of once every 2 years is not that hard (if you have had Jury servive with in 2 years you can get out of it )

Its not always a filthy scum criminal, thats why I wouldnt want you on any jury of mine, it is innocent until proven guilty.

Most reasonable work places will pay you your normal wages while you attend jury service.




Ok filthy scum may have been over the top and yes people should be considered innocent until proven guilty BUT you have to wonder how did such a person end up in that predicament......


For a whole number of reasons? Corruption in the police force, someone framing them, coincidences stacking up etc etc. There could be countless reasons someone is charged with a crime when they're actually innocent. That's why it's innocent until proven guilty. That's why we have courts and jury's, so we can see all evidence or lack there of, and come to a logical decision based on the facts presented. Someone being in court is not evidence of a crime being committed my friend. 




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  Reply # 1077049 30-Jun-2014 14:24
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Been on the electoral roll for 10+ years now and never once been called up for duty. I have been out for NZ for 2.5 years now tho, so assume they wont call me up when I am registered to vote with an address outside of NZ




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  Reply # 1077052 30-Jun-2014 14:36
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Kyanar:
sxz: The law is not an ass.  If all the people with important jobs could write in and get off Jury duty, all Jury's would be comprised of retiree's, beneficiaries and stay-at-home mums and dads.  That's why they are getting more and more forceful with you - they do not want to give you a get out of jury free pass, you are an important part of the cross section of society.  If you were accused of something would you want a full cross section of society, including those intelligent hard workers?  

Can you tell me a better way of doing it?


Yes, absolutely.  The law can make damn sure that I'm still paid while I'm doing jury service so that I don't end up months behind on my bills and in danger of being evicted because I'm expected to "do my civic duty" - my landlord wouldn't accept "sorry, I have no money because of jury service", nor would my phone company or Pak n Save/Countdown.  Either the court needs to pay my standard daily rate per day or my employer needs to be legally obligated to pay me while I'm doing it.  Otherwise, the law is indeed an ass, it can go to hell, and I will dodge "jury service" every chance I get.

I would also like that if I go to hospital, I don't get told "sorry, we're not sure what disease you have - the pathologist got stuck on a 6 month murder trial so he's not able to look at your results".  The law is idiotic.


I wonder who sets the amounts that jurors get paid. I am guessing it isn't the remuneration authority, which does it for judges, government departments and politicians, but maybe wrong. I think it needs to be at least at the living wage.

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  Reply # 1077090 30-Jun-2014 14:49
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does it come in a envelope that has a nz govt logo? before opening it could just write return to sender, no such person?

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  Reply # 1077091 30-Jun-2014 14:50
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I have some experience I can impart from both (three) sides of the arguments presented here.

When my twins were born, prematurely, I got summonsed for jury service and was excused on the grounds that I was essentially going through a crisis. Even in hindsitight, it was a legitimate excuse and when I wrote the letter, attached hospital evidence of the then recent premature birth, I also said that if I was ever called up gain, I'd go.

A few years later, I get called up and went. I had to go in on three occaisions during the week and (by luck of the draw) was not selected. On each occaision, I arrived late-ish (I don't go to town often, so I always struggle with parking). On each occaision, I was last in the queue heading into the room and noticed that at least 20% (by very quick visual scan) of names on the list were marked with 'did not show'. So my opinion is that there are a lot of people that simply don't show and I think it might be one of those things that because you answer the call, the call might seem to come more often... although the evidence is that this is a computer generated service, I can't help but feel the algorithms are tweaked.

Other than jury service, at that time, I had never been into a courtroom or even a court building and I have no arrests or priors and have in fact, never been interogated by police service ever. I have had some traffic fines for excessive speed (less than 20kms+) and a few parking infringements.

Now onto something that this thread has turned into - whether or not jury services are needed and where the presumption of guilt lies. As above, I think my lifestyle is somewhat boring, I have never knowingly commit a crime or assault (sometimes I park and don't put money in the meter consciously and at times I might download/view something I probably should check the license for), I do help old ladies across the street, spare change for the odd cause, have a community mind/spirit etc. But it so happens that one day my ex made a most unreasonable request of me regarding relocation with my children and I politely refused. I was smart enough to keep all my emails and texts, so I could prove that there was a discussion and the request was entertained but politely turned down (luckily). This did not stop my ex from procuring the services of a lawyer and filing a claim that I was not only a poor father and terrible example of manliness, but an abusive one, a child beater, neglectful and heavily sedated most days in a haze of drugs. Whether or not her lawyer put her up to this or she felt some need to be to the point and so specific is not clear. The prospect of losing access to my children indefinitely made me a bundle of nerves so tightly wound that my lawyer started to ask questions that made me think even she doubted my account.

While this drama played out, over a year and almost $20k (and still going), I have been to court several times to answer questions and I have started to learn that there are in fact people who routinely extinguish cigarettes into their kids skin and there are people who routinely and very violently r*pe and assault their children and the system is too heavily weighed down to hope that a single person might survive these recounts each day and that psychological burden has to be shared by a room full of people that can somehow represent what society hopes to see as 'normal' and 'everyday'. There are equally people who exist that feel a sense of entitlement so high that they see no injustice in commiting to writing and sworn testimony false evidence because somewhere, in the dark recess of their spoilt childhood, they feel this is okay to do to somebody else, even if it's not entirely honest.

If it was up to a handful of people to effect verdict, it would be too easy to make a mistake or even influence judgement and for that reason, your services as juror are important and your attention is most certainly welcome during the case, becasue it is very, very easy to be that person who is being judged for no fault of your own and you don't want it to be by somebody who is having a bad day, but rather the parts of society that have likely experienced hardship and judgement as you would be, on that day.

On a note: the Family Court is not a jury system, I know that, but the example above is to illustrate how very quickly sh!t can get real for you, even though you may be without guilt. Fortunately for me, the Family Court put me through the same process as all the actual child abusers so that I could be seen as the shining star of fatherhood I am. I did get interviewed over several hours each time by psychologists, counsellors and lawyers - my jury in this case, as in the end, they all offered positive testimony for me and made it clear the testimony against me was very false and highly exaggerated at worst.

If you happen to have been called out for something you did not do and I'm in court, you can be assured I'll be paying attention and sharing an honest opinion in the jury room becasue I can appreciate how quickly your life can be destroyed by a few angry people.

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