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  Reply # 1081241 4-Jul-2014 22:54
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HowickDota:
joker97:
KiwiNZ: Lamb and Beef are free range. Chicken and Pork will be labelled if free range.


i had the impression that the term free range is not legislated. ie one could label anything as free range.


Misleading consumers is an offence under the Fair Trading Act.


http://www.stuff.co.nz/life-style/food-wine/food-news/9055738/How-free-range-are-your-eggs

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  Reply # 1081244 4-Jul-2014 22:57
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gzt:
Encyclopedia of New Zealand: Antibiotics have been used in meat, milk and egg production in New Zealand since government approval in the 1960s.

If you want to avoid those you will need one of the 'organic' certifications. Not sure which one.


i read somewhere that antibiotics only allowed to treat disease. but it is not tightly regulated, for example some kiwifruits are given antibiotics against guideline. not sure how widespread it is in meat but presumably if there is no disease it only increases cost without gain.

organic is legislated. that means no artificial anything from fertilizers to sprays to antibiotics

 
 
 
 


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  Reply # 1081279 5-Jul-2014 02:25
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Good that you have an interest in this!

New Zealand has relatively strong legislation, and good industry practices regarding "factory farming", antibiotic and hormone use. We're lucky that our climate and relatively small population allows us the space to grass feed our animals year round.
There's recently been talk of housing dairy herds in pens or shelters over wet winter months, but it's actually a move to improve animal welfare and decrease waste runoff during wet weather, rather than a move to feedlots.

Compare it to North America where most beef is finished in feedlots, chicken & pork grown in intensive factory farms, and yes - fed high protein, unnatural foods, antibiotics and often growth hormones or enhancers. They also need to be fed vitamin A & D which would be naturally produced from exposure to sunlight.
Only recently (due to Mad Cow disease) was it made illegal to feed sheep and cattle bits to sheep and cattle..

You also have to watch fish. Finfish farmed in pens (salmon in New Zealand) are fed massive antibiotic loads, and, like most factory farmed product, is not as nutritious as wild fish. See here
Farmed shellfish can be considered free range.

Imported frozen prawns are usually from intensive farms..

So research & make your choices carefully and you'll be supporting the type of farming that you've decided is best.

(Edited for bad link formatting & spelling..)



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  Reply # 1081302 5-Jul-2014 08:08
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Sidestep: Good that you have an interest in this!

New Zealand has relatively strong legislation, and good industry practices regarding "factory farming", antibiotic and hormone use. We're lucky that our climate and relatively small population allows us the space to grass feed our animals year round.
There's recently been talk of housing dairy herds in pens or shelters over wet winter months, but it's actually a move to improve animal welfare and decrease waste runoff during wet weather, rather than a move to feedlots.

Compare it to North America where most beef is finished in feedlots, chicken & pork grown in intensive factory farms, and yes - fed high protein, unnatural foods, antibiotics and often growth hormones or enhancers. They also need to be fed vitamin A & D which would be naturally produced from exposure to sunlight.
Only recently (due to Mad Cow disease) was it made illegal to feed sheep and cattle bits to sheep and cattle..

You also have to watch fish. Finfish farmed in pens (salmon in New Zealand) are fed massive antibiotic loads, and, like most factory farmed product, is not as nutritious as wild fish. See here
Farmed shellfish can be considered free range.

Imported frozen prawns are usually from intensive farms..

So research & make your choices carefully and you'll be supporting the type of farming that you've decided is best.

(Edited for bad link formatting & spelling..)


Thanks yea, this cavemen diet had me very interested in all these stuff.
Good news about the beef then. BUT YIKES on the salmon! I've been buying fresh salmon from PaknSave (in those blue plastic packaging) weekly! Do you know where i can get good wild salmon here ? (Auckland)

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  Reply # 1081308 5-Jul-2014 09:28
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KiwiNZ: Pork is a meat I avoid due to high purine levels.


Gout?

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  Reply # 1081309 5-Jul-2014 09:39
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Sidestep: Good that you have an interest in this!

New Zealand has relatively strong legislation, and good industry practices regarding "factory farming", antibiotic and hormone use. We're lucky that our climate and relatively small population allows us the space to grass feed our animals year round.
There's recently been talk of housing dairy herds in pens or shelters over wet winter months, but it's actually a move to improve animal welfare and decrease waste runoff during wet weather, rather than a move to feedlots.

Compare it to North America where most beef is finished in feedlots, chicken & pork grown in intensive factory farms, and yes - fed high protein, unnatural foods, antibiotics and often growth hormones or enhancers. They also need to be fed vitamin A & D which would be naturally produced from exposure to sunlight.
Only recently (due to Mad Cow disease) was it made illegal to feed sheep and cattle bits to sheep and cattle..

You also have to watch fish. Finfish farmed in pens (salmon in New Zealand) are fed massive antibiotic loads, and, like most factory farmed product, is not as nutritious as wild fish. See here
Farmed shellfish can be considered free range.

Imported frozen prawns are usually from intensive farms..

So research & make your choices carefully and you'll be supporting the type of farming that you've decided is best.

(Edited for bad link formatting & spelling..)

Some very quick research strongly indicates NZ Salmon farms do NOT use antibiotics. There simply isn't a need to.

When researching these sorts of things, it's very important to:

     

  1. Find information from multiple reliable sources (no crackpot/conspiracy sites).
  2. Make sure the information you find is relative to the country and product in question.




Location: Dunedin

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  Reply # 1081331 5-Jul-2014 10:34
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NZ does have one major beef feedlot near Ashburton. It primarily services the Japanese market.




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  Reply # 1081513 5-Jul-2014 16:22
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TimA:
mattwnz:
coolcat21:
pgs2050: Free range / organic / gluten free - if it doesn't say so on the label, it definitely isn't. The producers of these kinds of products will not waste the opportunity to label it and charge you more (if only because it costs more to produce).



so you're saying all those unlabelled over-the-counter beef that you can get from mad butcher, countdown, foodtown, paknsave are all non grass fed ?


They haven't said that. You need to read the assoicated websites that these meat producers belong to, or ask the manager at your supermarket. If it has a NZ beef sticker on it it has to meat certain standards.


Discrete pun above!
I am quite sure all NZ fish as long as its salt is "Free Range" you could say..
Pork, Chicken would be labeled, Beef and lamb is on large dry stock farms.


Salmon sold in NZ isn't 'free range'.. All salmon sold in NZ is farmed, most often in 'salt water' farms, and as far as I'm aware, wild salmon are not allowed to be sold as they're a recreational fish species.

Farmed salmon are 'force feed' a high protein diet full of 'chemical additives' meaning they taste bad (tasteless and 'slimy' IMO) and dont come close to tasting like real wild salmon. It's why I dont buy it any more. That and the fact that some family members can supply wild caught salmon in season... 

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  Reply # 1081522 5-Jul-2014 16:37
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joker97:

organic is legislated. that means no artificial anything from fertilizers to sprays to antibiotics


Is it though? 'Certified Organic' has strict guidelines, but not sure if the word 'organic' is. Most food is 'organic' anyway.

Edt: I don't think it is fully regulated, looks like it is only for exports as per http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_with_organic_agriculture_regulation

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  Reply # 1081537 5-Jul-2014 16:57
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andrewNZ:
Some very quick research strongly indicates NZ Salmon farms do NOT use antibiotics. There simply isn't a need to.

When researching these sorts of things, it's very important to:

  1. Find information from multiple reliable sources (no crackpot/conspiracy sites).

  2. Make sure the information you find is relative to the country and product in question.


Yes you're right. Should have looked at that through a more NZ specific lens..
King Salmon in NZ is one of the very few - perhaps only - companies raising antibiotic free salmon.
The information linked to regarding the lower levels of HUFAs, artificial coloring etc in farmed salmon is correct for NZ though.
New Zealand is also one of the few places to make the sale of wild caught salmon and trout illegal.
A decision i agree with.
Here in Canada wild salmon is sold alongside farmed salmon with very little differentiation, and pen raised salmon are loaded with antibiotics - I have some experience with that having dabbled in aquaculture in a previous life..

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  Reply # 1081597 5-Jul-2014 20:21
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One of the problems with farmed Salmon is that other fish species are decimated to make the feed.  Plus the trout down stream from the Salmon farms end up fat and tasting bland.

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  Reply # 1082496 7-Jul-2014 16:01
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Glassboy: One of the problems with farmed Salmon is that other fish species are decimated to make the feed.  Plus the trout down stream from the Salmon farms end up fat and tasting bland.


I used to work on a salmon farm.  There is lot of info out there about Salmon farming that was correct in the 1970's, but no longer is; or applies to overseas, but not in NZ.

Most of the salmon feed used in NZ has low levels of fish in it.  The feed industry has had to evolve considerably to control cost while meeting nutritional needs of the animals.  Modern fish feed contain a variety of plant and animal based ingredients - usually the by-products of other industries.  There are still some fish sources used.  These include fish meal - i.e. by-products of other fisheries.  There are also specific oils from fisheries like South American bait fish fisheries, which are generally pretty well managed.  

If you buy certified organic farmed fish, they will have a diet that is high in fish, because that is what the organic standards prescribe.  There is no biological reason for this.  Salmonoids eat a wide variety of animals in the wild: Fish, insects, crustaceans, worms, shellfish, rodents, birds, amphibians and the list goes on.

You can't force feed a salmon as another post suggested.  Salmon would be the most difficult farmed fish to feed.  They will only take food as it is sinking through the water column.   Salmon farmers companies have big sums of capital invested in technology to avoid overfeeding for the simple reason that feed is expensive.

Antibiotics: NZ has not had live salmon material imported since about the middle of last century.  We also farm Chinook salmon, while the rest of the world farms Atlantic salmon.  As a result we have very few diseases.  Consequently there is no reason to use antibiotics, but they would be legally available if required for animal welfare.

If people don't like the taste of the last salmon they bought - shop around.  There are several different companies using different feeding strategies and growing in different environments.  The flavour varies significantly as a result.




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  Reply # 1082534 7-Jul-2014 16:24
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.
The information linked to regarding the lower levels of HUFAs, artificial coloring etc in farmed salmon is correct for NZ though.


The colour you are referring to is astaxanthin (ATX).  While the ATX used in farmed salmon diets is synthesised, it's a stretch to call it artificial as it is a naturally occurring compound.  ATX is a powerful antioxidant.

Wild salmon would be expected to have ATX in their diet.  It's found in crustaceans like shrimps. It does give the salmon their distinctive flesh colour, if you ever catch a trout that has been eating a lot of koura it's flesh will be almost blood red. 

It's also a stretch to refer to ATX simply as a colourant.  Salmonoids derive a health benefit from having it in their diet - putatively due to its antioxidant function. 

ATX is sold in natural and synthetic forms by health stores as a dietary supplement ie beneficial to human health.  It is cheaper (but still not cheap) to synthesise.  It's the most expensive component of salmon diet and for that reason wouldn't be there if it wasn't necessary.




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  Reply # 1082545 7-Jul-2014 16:40
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I think I've acquired more valuable information in this topic in the last 30 minutes than I have collectively over the last week. Really interesting read, chaps!




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  Reply # 1083833 8-Jul-2014 04:28
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MikeAqua:
.
The information linked to regarding the lower levels of HUFAs, artificial coloring etc in farmed salmon is correct for NZ though.


The colour you are referring to is astaxanthin (ATX).  While the ATX used in farmed salmon diets is synthesised, it's a stretch to call it artificial as it is a naturally occurring compound.  ATX is a powerful antioxidant.

Wild salmon would be expected to have ATX in their diet.  It's found in crustaceans like shrimps. It does give the salmon their distinctive flesh colour, if you ever catch a trout that has been eating a lot of koura it's flesh will be almost blood red. 

It's also a stretch to refer to ATX simply as a colourant.  Salmonoids derive a health benefit from having it in their diet - putatively due to its antioxidant function. 

ATX is sold in natural and synthetic forms by health stores as a dietary supplement ie beneficial to human health.  It is cheaper (but still not cheap) to synthesise.  It's the most expensive component of salmon diet and for that reason wouldn't be there if it wasn't necessary.


To me 'synthesized' is artificial. I'm not saying 'bad' (I eat synthesized food products, take medicines - like aspirin - that are copies of naturally occurring compounds every day).
It's the way it's used and what it's used for in fish production that lessens the value of farmed salmon for me.
In the wild along with the natural colorant derived from it's food sources, salmon load up on Highly Unsaturated Fatty Acids, the omega 3 fish oils that have been promoted as making fish a 'healthy' food. Particularly the DHA and EPA versions.
Fish don't produce these oils, they're naturally produced only by plants, photosynthetic algae and seaweeds, and carried up the food chain -zooplankton and fish larva, all the way up to the fish we eat.
So that orange fleshed, koura fed trout, or bright pink wild salmon has not only loaded up color, but filled it's body with the bioaccumulated oils that we prize fish for.
The feeding of farmed Salmon on plant and animal based foods - with the minimum amounts of fish based content to ensure their survival, and then the pre harvest use of krill based or synthetic colorant to give that nice pink color seems to me a bit of a trick, although not one that'll cause any danger to anyone.

Like the OP I'm interested in a healthy diet. Not necessarily the extreme 'caveman' or 'evolutionary' diets, but one in which I understand what I'm eating.
A balance of omega 6 (plant derived) and omega3 (marine derived) oils seems to be important. There are tons of studies into the ratios that are healthiest, but general agreement that intensive feedlot grow out of animals, birds and fish changes these.

Several years ago I packed up my family and moved back to the family property in a remote, rural area of New Zealand.
We live a semi organic lifestyle, as free of pesticides and herbicides as possible. Grow a lot of our own produce, eat local (home killed) animals, catch most of our own fish.
That's while we're there.
Half the year, for work, we're here in North America - mainly Canada, where we eat much the same diet as everyone else.
That's often feedlot grown beef, intensively reared chicken, vegetables and fruit imported from California and South America, sprayed with who knows what..
We're not nutters. My wife's training and background is agriculture. Her family farms here in Alberta, both extensively ( grain, oilseed farms) and intensively (cattle feedlots, broiler chicken farms). We both worked in the industry - for several years in work associated with ICI-Zeneca's plant breeding (hybridization) programs, rotating through Canada, Australia and the US. We were licensed applicators of agricultural chemicals (pesticides and herbicides) and have an idea of the risk levels associated with them.

What really inspired our move was the outbreak of Mad Cow Disease - BSE - here just as our kids were born.
It stunned the feedlot industry, as the vector of transmission, a type of protein called a prion that could survive the intensive processing of cattle feed production hadn't previously been considered an issue.
The issue really was that they were feeding sheep and cattle byproduct - particularly brain and spinal cord tissue, to cattle.
The premier of the province famously told farmers to 'shoot, shovel and shut up' ie not tell anyone about the diseased animals, but both the US and Japan, followed by other countries, banned the import of Canadian beef.
A Virologist we knew, who specialized in transmission of disease in feedlots, had presciently pointed out BSE as a likely scenario, and when she was proved right we began to re think our involvement in the whole industry.

New Zealand, as I pointed out in my post above, has good industry practices, legislation that supports the countries image of a clean, green producer of healthy foods. Consumers making educated choices, watching that legislation supports the balance between efficiency of production and the 'quality' of what we eat will ensure it stays that way.

Must stop now. I've written a Novel.

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