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  #1093571 22-Jul-2014 11:39
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KiwiNZ: We could take Govt out of the marriage /union stuff and have that a couple just announces to anyone listening that hence fourth they are a partnership. It would make a lot of other stuff a nightmare like administering the Social Security Act especially section 63.


This isn't a bad point. The de-facto partnership laws should/could cover the legal aspects, and Marriage could be simply left as a social custom.

I guess again this would effect legal recognition overseas tho.




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  #1093692 22-Jul-2014 13:37
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KiwiNZ: We could take Govt out of the marriage /union stuff and have that a couple just announces to anyone listening that hence fourth they are a partnership. It would make a lot of other stuff a nightmare like administering the Social Security Act especially section 63.


Nah, just equate being married with establishing a company and apply company law :-)

 
 
 
 


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  #1093695 22-Jul-2014 13:41
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Company law, hmmm interesting. One could sell ones share of the relationship or issue more shares and allow further partners to invest





Mike
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The views stated in my posts are my personal views and not that of any other organisation.

 

Be it ever so humble, there is no place like home.




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  #1093696 22-Jul-2014 13:43
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"Marriage" as traditionally understood has existing for thousands of years, we add a new dimension and now the term isn't valid. Seems reasonable.

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  #1093736 22-Jul-2014 14:20
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networkn: "Marriage" as traditionally understood has existing for thousands of years.


Out of curiosity, what is your understanding of "'Marriage' as traditionally understood has existing for thousands of years"? How do you define it?




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  #1093749 22-Jul-2014 15:21
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ajobbins:
networkn: "Marriage" as traditionally understood has existing for thousands of years.


Out of curiosity, what is your understanding of "'Marriage' as traditionally understood has existing for thousands of years"? How do you define it?


Hi. 

I think I'll pass on what I consider the definition of marriage debate with you, but thanks for the offer.



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  #1093751 22-Jul-2014 15:31
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networkn:
ajobbins:
networkn: "Marriage" as traditionally understood has existing for thousands of years.


Out of curiosity, what is your understanding of "'Marriage' as traditionally understood has existing for thousands of years"? How do you define it?


Hi. 

I think I'll pass on what I consider the definition of marriage debate with you, but thanks for the offer.




It's simple, it's a life sentence tongue-out




Mike
Retired IT Manager. 
The views stated in my posts are my personal views and not that of any other organisation.

 

Be it ever so humble, there is no place like home.


 
 
 
 




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  #1093753 22-Jul-2014 15:32
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KiwiNZ:
networkn:
ajobbins:
networkn: "Marriage" as traditionally understood has existing for thousands of years.


Out of curiosity, what is your understanding of "'Marriage' as traditionally understood has existing for thousands of years"? How do you define it?


Hi. 

I think I'll pass on what I consider the definition of marriage debate with you, but thanks for the offer.




It's simple, it's a life sentence tongue-out


I'm happy with mine :) 

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  #1093755 22-Jul-2014 15:37
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networkn:
KiwiNZ:
networkn:
ajobbins:
networkn: "Marriage" as traditionally understood has existing for thousands of years.


Out of curiosity, what is your understanding of "'Marriage' as traditionally understood has existing for thousands of years"? How do you define it?


Hi. 

I think I'll pass on what I consider the definition of marriage debate with you, but thanks for the offer.




It's simple, it's a life sentence tongue-out


I'm happy with mine :) 


So am I, for 34 years in fact




Mike
Retired IT Manager. 
The views stated in my posts are my personal views and not that of any other organisation.

 

Be it ever so humble, there is no place like home.


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  #1093758 22-Jul-2014 15:51
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networkn: I think I'll pass on what I consider the definition of marriage debate with you, but thanks for the offer.


Fair enough. I will just say however that the definition of Marriage differs greatly between cultures and has changed significantly over the last 100 years, and ever more so over longer periods of time.

In most western cultures, the one man + one women element of marriage (and it is just one element) has been pretty unchanged for a long time. My view (and I realise this is an opinion and others differ) is that many aspects of marriage have changed and evolved over time, and history suggests that changes that increase equality do not seem to interfere with the marriages of others, and don't correlate to any negative effects on the concept of marriage.




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  #1093775 22-Jul-2014 16:17
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KiwiNZ:
networkn: 

I'm happy with mine :) 


So am I, for 34 years in fact


I'm getting married next year, and I am pleased that my gay friends, colleagues, fellow citizens etc have that same opportunity that I do.




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  #1093785 22-Jul-2014 16:32
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ajobbins:
KiwiNZ:
networkn: 

I'm happy with mine :) 


So am I, for 34 years in fact


I'm getting married next year, and I am pleased that my gay friends, colleagues, fellow citizens etc have that same opportunity that I do.


Congratulations. I wonder if you will feel after ward if anything has changed in your relationship.

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  #1093791 22-Jul-2014 16:43
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ajobbins:
networkn: "Marriage" as traditionally understood has existing for thousands of years.


Out of curiosity, what is your understanding of "'Marriage' as traditionally understood has existing for thousands of years"? How do you define it?


Man + woman is one important criteria.

But, the liberals are trying to make 2+2=5. 

I have respect for Ben Carson and he explains it very well here. 



There was no need to change the law.  Future generations will be worse off for this.   It is already starting in Australia where a judge is questioning incest / paedophile laws due to the goalposts being moved.

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  #1093816 22-Jul-2014 17:51
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surfisup1000:
ajobbins:
networkn: "Marriage" as traditionally understood has existing for thousands of years.


Out of curiosity, what is your understanding of "'Marriage' as traditionally understood has existing for thousands of years"? How do you define it?


Man + woman is one important criteria.

But, the liberals are trying to make 2+2=5. 

I have respect for Ben Carson and he explains it very well here. 



There was no need to change the law.  Future generations will be worse off for this.   It is already starting in Australia where a judge is questioning incest / paedophile laws due to the goalposts being moved.


Slightly out, should be...

Man + Woman or
Woman +Woman or
Man+Man






Mike
Retired IT Manager. 
The views stated in my posts are my personal views and not that of any other organisation.

 

Be it ever so humble, there is no place like home.


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  #1093837 22-Jul-2014 18:22
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I chortled heartily through that video. How many logical fallacies can you stuff in one 7 minute video, I wonder?

"Marriage is changing for everyone"

My parents are still married. They have their marriage certificate, their tax benefits, their legal recognition. What has changed for them since "the gay invasion"? Nothing. If you stop sticking your nose into other people's business, nothing changes for you, either. Take your morals and apply them to yourself, not everyone else.

"2+2=5"

What? Mathematics is a natural law. It's observed from the world around us.

Marriage is a human custom. It was created by humans, so why can it not be modified by humans to become more inclusive and welcoming?

Also, RE: Animals: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Homosexual_behavior_in_animals


 As of 1999, nearly 1,500 species, ranging from primates to gut worms, have been observed engaging in same-sex behaviors; this is well documented in about 500 species.



"It's intolerant to not believe in gay marriage"

Nobody is going to get up your anus about your beliefs if you don't go around doing your utmost to deny the rights of others.

You do not have a right to not be offended. You may be offended by this: Nobody cares. Gay people *do* have a right to be treated the same as everybody else.

How about you put yourself in the shoes of a gay person. You find the person of your dreams, fall in love, apply to get married. Well, you're not allowed. Why? Everyone else can get married, why am I different? "Well sir, it's because we really just don't like you or the way you think". How would you feel if you were told you can't do what everyone else does simply because of the way your mind works? It'd feel awful.

"Pedophilia!"

Nobody is advocating marriage with children, so I don't know where this came from. In any case, greater acceptance for pedophiles (NOTE: there is a big difference between pedophile and child rapist) can only be a good thing: stigmatization of pedophilia simply pushes pedophiles further underground, making it difficult for them to seek treatment and more likely to commit crime.

Basically, if someone can't participate in the system society has set up, they will then work around/outside those systems. If a pedophile feels like they will be arrested/discriminated against if they goes to seek mental help to control their urges, then they most likely won't seek help. Then one day, the temptation gets too great, and a child's life is ruined forever. Perhaps we should have focused on treating the illness, rather than hating the ill - and parking the ambulance at the bottom of the cliff for the children thrown off.

Sorry, this is a pet peeve of mine.

"Incest"

I don't even know why incest is a crime. No really, why? If it's consenting, then surely it's okay? If it's not consenting, then surely it's rape - thus already heavily illegal?

Also, not related to gay marriage.

"Future generations will be worse off for this"

Lol. Pray tell.


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