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Topic # 150296 17-Jul-2014 16:23
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I am looking at doing electrics for automotive or household (Data cabling mainly)

Wondering where the best place to start would be. I have the option to study in Whanagrei or in Auckland.
Who would be the best for a pre trade or full course for automotive electrics or "standard" electrics?

Cheers




 


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  Reply # 1090889 17-Jul-2014 16:50
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I would talk to E-Tec in Mt Wellington in Auckland. The owner, Gavin, is a wealth of knowledge, and is involved with a lot of the different courses frameworks, and liaising with the NZQA etc etc.

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  Reply # 1090890 17-Jul-2014 16:50
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Talking to most electrical firms they prefer apprentices to be fresh with no prior knowledge. They generally say the stuff people get taught in pre-trade courses makes them think they know stuff which in fact they don't. If you want to get in to the trade just look out for apprenticeships going around the place.

The ETCO site would be a good place to start.



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  Reply # 1090892 17-Jul-2014 16:55
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Cool,

Thanks for replies. Im mainly interested in Automotive and Data cabling areas of it.
Ill have a chat with a few of them and see what i can do. I know a few guys that did a pre trade and worked good for them. Whether there is a bad perception given from know it alls that do those courses then come out of them and get an apprenticeship, Thats not good but equally could impair me not getting one.

Cheers




 


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  Reply # 1091397 18-Jul-2014 13:34
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chevrolux: Talking to most electrical firms they prefer apprentices to be fresh with no prior knowledge. They generally say the stuff people get taught in pre-trade courses makes them think they know stuff which in fact they don't. If you want to get in to the trade just look out for apprenticeships going around the place.

The ETCO site would be a good place to start.


I don't agree with this.
From where I'm sitting, I see several things:
Electrical firms snap up those who've successfully completed pre-trades training.  There is a prerequisite for work experience in these courses.
Attrition rates in electrical pre-trade are high - around 50%.  Plenty don't have the academic ability to pass theory.  There's a pervading assumption made by many that trades training is easy - when it's not.
I believe that there may be growing recognition by govt. that ITOs aren't delivering the goods.  Some evidence of that is that with qualified tradespeople, the average age is very high.  (Average age of an LBP carpenter/builder in Christchurch is 55 - which given high demand and the probability that 50% of the existing workforce will have retired in 10 years time - surely indicates that we've got a serious problem coming up, not just for Chch - but for all of NZ).
Don't confuse specific pre-trade courses with "bridging courses" such as the Youth Guarantee scheme which try to bring (early) school leavers up to speed.  While these have their place and some success stories I'm sure, it can be a big ask to expect a school leaver with almost no qualifications at all, up to a level where they can handle electrical theory etc commencing study in electrical pre-trade at about NZQA level 3 (having at least NCEA maths level 2 would be a distinct advantage).





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  Reply # 1091405 18-Jul-2014 13:42
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I didnt do NCEA as i left school for Level 5-6 comupting and networking.
I want to eventually be self employed, I dont enjoy being managed etc.
I am good with my hands and very piratical so i see a trade like this as a good step in the right direction.
So you guys think a pre trade will go far?




 


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  Reply # 1091408 18-Jul-2014 13:49
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I just employed a tech for having one, besides suitability for the role.

Oddly, this was a discussion point with the rest of the techs.  Biggest seller was at least the basic was there already and time was not spent going through what they should already know.

I would say go for it


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  Reply # 1091429 18-Jul-2014 14:23
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TimA: I didnt do NCEA as i left school for Level 5-6 comupting and networking.
I want to eventually be self employed, I dont enjoy being managed etc.
I am good with my hands and very piratical so i see a trade like this as a good step in the right direction.
So you guys think a pre trade will go far?


As an employer of electricians I think you definitely need to do a pre-trade if you haven't got a NCEA at any level. You say you left school for level 5-6 computing, did you pass those courses? if so, you should find the theory component of a Level 4 electrical qual straightforward. If you didn't pass the Lev 5-6 courses then a business would be running a risk employing you as an electrician or technician because your prior education and actual ability is a complete unknown and the fact of not having NCEA would be setting off all sorts of warning bells. 

Despite what you've read in this thread, a successfully completed pre-qual makes you very employable and the "unteaching" is in fact making sure your work is to a workmanlike standard. As employers we can handle that, the difficulty many companies have is coaxing reluctant apprentices through their book work. That's common in every trade, not just the electrical trade so it's of great advantage to have a training provider looking after all that. The other good thing about the pre-trade courses is that the training providers work closely with industry and many apprentices get their first job through a recommendation from their tutors to an employer.

BTW, data cabling is a strand of the National cert in Telecommunications , not the NC electrical. As a sparkie you can do manufacturer based courses on different technologies but they are usually not Unit standard level and it only qualifies you to work on that manufacturers equipment. The NC in telecom is the same one as the Chorus service company techs do, but with a building data cabling set of electives instead of bearer/switch, cable access network or CPE. 

I wouldn't tell anyone interviewing me that I didn't like being managed. As an apprentice you will have to get used to that and as an apprentice electrician it's actually a statutory requirement that you are managed/supervised until you are registered.





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  Reply # 1091433 18-Jul-2014 14:30
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I passed all tertiary with high marks.
Being managed in the terms of a corporate isnt my most favorite thing.
I think a basic electrician pre trade would be good from there maybe go into data cabling.
Where is the best place to do such?

Cheers




 


gwh

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  Reply # 1091439 18-Jul-2014 14:38
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TimA: I passed all tertiary with high marks.
Being managed in the terms of a corporate isnt my most favorite thing.
I think a basic electrician pre trade would be good from there maybe go into data cabling.
Where is the best place to do such?

Cheers


ETCO or through a similar organisation.
Definitely get your electrical qual 1st and some time under your belt then move into another field. Do plenty of research 1st though- you want to be the tech in a data cabling company, not the cable runner and your electrical qual will make you very useful to any company in the data infrastructure field.



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  Reply # 1091443 18-Jul-2014 14:44
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gwh:
TimA: I passed all tertiary with high marks.
Being managed in the terms of a corporate isnt my most favorite thing.
I think a basic electrician pre trade would be good from there maybe go into data cabling.
Where is the best place to do such?

Cheers


ETCO or through a similar organisation.
Definitely get your electrical qual 1st and some time under your belt then move into another field. Do plenty of research 1st though- you want to be the tech in a data cabling company, not the cable runner and your electrical qual will make you very useful to any company in the data infrastructure field.


Cool, When i get some time ill look into that. 
ETCO only seem to do night classes, Any options for full time study on the shore or in Whangarei? A friend does the Automotive course at the local Polytechnic.
These look good:
http://www.openpolytechnic.ac.nz/subjects-and-courses/nc1195-national-certificate-in-electrical-engineering-electrician-for-registration-level-4
http://www.openpolytechnic.ac.nz/subjects-and-courses/nc095106-national-certificate-in-electrical-engineering-advanced-trade-level-5

Northtech do a Electrical engineering course too i might look at.
http://www.northtec.ac.nz/About-Us/Youth-Relations/Tasters.aspx




 


gwh

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  Reply # 1091453 18-Jul-2014 14:55
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TimA:
gwh:
TimA: I passed all tertiary with high marks.
Being managed in the terms of a corporate isnt my most favorite thing.
I think a basic electrician pre trade would be good from there maybe go into data cabling.
Where is the best place to do such?

Cheers


ETCO or through a similar organisation.
Definitely get your electrical qual 1st and some time under your belt then move into another field. Do plenty of research 1st though- you want to be the tech in a data cabling company, not the cable runner and your electrical qual will make you very useful to any company in the data infrastructure field.


Cool, When i get some time ill look into that. 
ETCO only seem to do night classes, Any options for full time study on the shore or in Whangarei? A friend does the Automotive course at the local Polytechnic.
These look good:
http://www.openpolytechnic.ac.nz/subjects-and-courses/nc1195-national-certificate-in-electrical-engineering-electrician-for-registration-level-4
http://www.openpolytechnic.ac.nz/subjects-and-courses/nc095106-national-certificate-in-electrical-engineering-advanced-trade-level-5

Northtech do a Electrical engineering course too i might look at.
http://www.northtec.ac.nz/About-Us/Youth-Relations/Tasters.aspx


I'm at the wrong end of the country to know about Auckland training providers but I'd be really surprised if ETCO didn't do a fulltime course in Auckland. You may get cross-credits from your other quals too but in the end it doesn't really make any difference to the time taken to get registered.


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