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793 posts

Ultimate Geek
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  Reply # 1095594 25-Jul-2014 13:10
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KiwiNZ:
"- Prior to domestic terrorists attacks in the US against the US, NZ had zero domestic passenger screening."  are you saying it is ok to ignore the current regulations because of that? if so, then following that logic we should ignore breath testing drivers because before we woke up to the results of drink driving we didn't do alcohol testing.

-" You have to hand it to National, they know how to handle these situations" if this was say Mr Cunliffe or Mr Norman what would National be calling for? ( disclosure I am a National supporter)


As for your first point, I was merely alluding to the fact that NZ was a pretty safe place to fly domestically prior to that (and by definition safer now). I'm not sure about your logic though, are you suggesting all car passengers must go through a breath screening test before they can get in to a car... every time? Let's not do analogies :-P. Also, when I said there was zero screening, I'm wrong - there was screening, it just wasn't designed to profile everyone on a flight and check carry on.

Your second point is hypothetical, maybe it will be answered next term?

I read one persons comment which I like: "Once rules are being applied just because they exists, rather than because there's a good reason for them, they cease to be of any use at all."

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  Reply # 1095595 25-Jul-2014 13:16
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itxtme:
gzt: 

Gerry Brownlee should be charged with whatever breach of the law he committed.



He didnt breach any laws, it was the mistake of the guy who let him through.  

One cannot tell me he didnt use his public figure influence to achieve the bypassing of security.  This is the real issue at heart, who cares about the actual incident.  This is boderline corruption, and its a slippery slope from here.  

Should he lose his job?  Personally I dont think so, but the next person that tries a similar thing will.  Like a few have said already, he put that man who opened the door in awfully difficult position. Some might claim its a no-brainer, dont let him through - but in the heat of the moment, I can see how he let it slide.  I feel sorry for him because he may well lose his job, or be reprimanded. 


He wont't lose his job, this is the reason that Brownlee gave for coming clean so quickly, plus the fact a person with connections to the media saw the incident happen....

My bet is that the person will be spoken to and a mass email reminding staff of their obligations under policy what-ever will be sent out.

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  Reply # 1095600 25-Jul-2014 13:42
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Bee: It was too small a thing to cost his job IMHO, but there should be some punishment for it - a cash fine relative to his salary, donated to a worthy charity...
But you can bet this story will go away now - he did the right thing - confess and offer up his job before the media circus got a hold of it, knowing full well John would not fire him and then get on with life...


Agreed, he should have offered his resignation (though I wouldn't have in his position since I don't consider this, as serious as it's been made out to be, all this whilst being very respectful of authority as people who know me know I am), given a donation to some worthy cause and everyone needs to move on. 

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  Reply # 1095601 25-Jul-2014 13:43
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BlueShift: He's just lucky our airport security folks aren't armed. Try that trick in the US and you're asking to be stopped permanently.


Rubbish. How many people are shot at airports in the US? Answer, none.


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  Reply # 1095615 25-Jul-2014 13:49
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networkn:
BlueShift: He's just lucky our airport security folks aren't armed. Try that trick in the US and you're asking to be stopped permanently.


Rubbish. How many people are shot at airports in the US? Answer, none.



97.48% of statistics are made up, google "shot at airport" and the first link (of many)

2013 Los Angeles International Airport shooting - Wikipedia ...

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  Reply # 1095623 25-Jul-2014 13:59
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itxtme:
networkn:
BlueShift: He's just lucky our airport security folks aren't armed. Try that trick in the US and you're asking to be stopped permanently.


Rubbish. How many people are shot at airports in the US? Answer, none.



97.48% of statistics are made up, google "shot at airport" and the first link (of many)

2013 Los Angeles International Airport shooting - Wikipedia ...


And how is that link related to the notion that TSA officers are trigger happy and would have then shot a politician they let through!? That would also be interesting since TSA officer don't carry firearms.

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Ultimate Geek
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  Reply # 1095627 25-Jul-2014 14:02
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itxtme:
gzt: 

Gerry Brownlee should be charged with whatever breach of the law he committed.



He didnt breach any laws, it was the mistake of the guy who let him through.  

One cannot tell me he didnt use his public figure influence to achieve the bypassing of security.  This is the real issue at heart, who cares about the actual incident.  This is boderline corruption, and its a slippery slope from here.  

Should he lose his job?  Personally I dont think so, but the next person that tries a similar thing will.  Like a few have said already, he put that man who opened the door in awfully difficult position. Some might claim its a no-brainer, dont let him through - but in the heat of the moment, I can see how he let it slide.  I feel sorry for him because he may well lose his job, or be reprimanded. 



Yes he DID breach laws, that is why what he did can have a 3 month prison or $2000 fine.

Its was NOT a mistake. I don't fly as often as the MP and I know you have to go through airport security and do not have the right to by pass it.
Apart from that, ignorance of the law is no defence 

He SHOULD loose his job, this is one up on a junior MP getting drunk and bullying waiting staff , this is a senior minister with significant experience.

We have a growing issue with Politicians thinking they are entitled to put their snout in a trough, paying for private expenses on their Tax Payer credit cards, using their position to bully staff, etc etc etc. Politicians need to be reminded they are still citizens and still have to obey the laws (they created).



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  Reply # 1095632 25-Jul-2014 14:13
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itxtme:
networkn:
BlueShift: He's just lucky our airport security folks aren't armed. Try that trick in the US and you're asking to be stopped permanently.


Rubbish. How many people are shot at airports in the US? Answer, none.



97.48% of statistics are made up, google "shot at airport" and the first link (of many)

2013 Los Angeles International Airport shooting - Wikipedia ...


Sorry I didn't qualify it enough. I should have added "for walking through a security door without authorization whilst unarmed.  (as is the equivalent situation as occurred with JB).



Mad Scientist
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  Reply # 1095657 25-Jul-2014 14:46
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sir1963:


Yes he DID breach laws, that is why what he did can have a 3 month prison or $2000 fine.

Its was NOT a mistake. I don't fly as often as the MP and I know you have to go through airport security and do not have the right to by pass it.
Apart from that, ignorance of the law is no defence 

He SHOULD loose his job, this is one up on a junior MP getting drunk and bullying waiting staff , this is a senior minister with significant experience.

We have a growing issue with Politicians thinking they are entitled to put their snout in a trough, paying for private expenses on their Tax Payer credit cards, using their position to bully staff, etc etc etc. Politicians need to be reminded they are still citizens and still have to obey the laws (they created).




it is a mistake. anytime someone apologises and is remorseful automatically acknowledges a mistake as been made. same with drink driving, peeing on the parking meters, they are all errors in judgement.

he should lose his job if he repeatedly/aggressively intimidated a subordinate when his "mistake" (refer above) was pointed out to him. if he didn't commit "harassment"  or "bullying" then there is no moral argument for him to step down.

may i point out the CEO of spark committed harassment on an employee. he didn't resign did he? it's all moral.

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  Reply # 1095705 25-Jul-2014 15:55
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joker97: Half the earthquake delay is due to the minister (slow eqc small pace) and the other half is due to Canterbrians dumbness (they've spent tens of millions of dollars arguing about the wrecked cathedral and it remains a wreck. With that money wasted you could have half a suburb developed by now)


???

Do you think that Cathedral money is actually available to the general public to rebuild their houses?




My very metal Doctor Who theme

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  Reply # 1095706 25-Jul-2014 15:56
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BurningBeard:
joker97: Half the earthquake delay is due to the minister (slow eqc small pace) and the other half is due to Canterbrians dumbness (they've spent tens of millions of dollars arguing about the wrecked cathedral and it remains a wreck. With that money wasted you could have half a suburb developed by now)


???

Do you think that Cathedral money is actually available to the general public to rebuild their houses?


No. but the time spent on it, should be spent elsewhere. This coming from someone who LOVED the old cathedral and wanted to make an effort to keep it.

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Ultimate Geek
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  Reply # 1095759 25-Jul-2014 17:03
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joker97:
sir1963:


Yes he DID breach laws, that is why what he did can have a 3 month prison or $2000 fine.

Its was NOT a mistake. I don't fly as often as the MP and I know you have to go through airport security and do not have the right to by pass it.
Apart from that, ignorance of the law is no defence 

He SHOULD loose his job, this is one up on a junior MP getting drunk and bullying waiting staff , this is a senior minister with significant experience.

We have a growing issue with Politicians thinking they are entitled to put their snout in a trough, paying for private expenses on their Tax Payer credit cards, using their position to bully staff, etc etc etc. Politicians need to be reminded they are still citizens and still have to obey the laws (they created).




it is a mistake. anytime someone apologises and is remorseful automatically acknowledges a mistake as been made. same with drink driving, peeing on the parking meters, they are all errors in judgement.

he should lose his job if he repeatedly/aggressively intimidated a subordinate when his "mistake" (refer above) was pointed out to him. if he didn't commit "harassment"  or "bullying" then there is no moral argument for him to step down.

may i point out the CEO of spark committed harassment on an employee. he didn't resign did he? it's all moral.


No it was NOT a mistake. 
Breaking the law is nothing to do with bullying or harassment.
He was the one who created the laws, he is the one who has been party to negotiations with other countries and their expectation.
This was sheer arrogance that he though he could commit a crime anyone else in NZ would be prosecuted for and get away with it.

So unless you are trying to make out that Brownlee is some back country bumpkin who has never flown before and had never been in an airport, or that he is some kind of village idiot, this was NOT a mistake.




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  Reply # 1095768 25-Jul-2014 17:29
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  Reply # 1095781 25-Jul-2014 17:49
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If it is as report then it is not only a mistake it is an offence.




Mike
Retired IT Manager. 
The views stated in my posts are my personal views and not that of any other organisation.

 

 Mac user, Windows curser, Chrome OS desired.

 

The great divide is the lies from both sides.

 

 




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  Reply # 1095782 25-Jul-2014 17:56
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Absolutely, yes he has made a mistake and in the process committed a crime of intentionally breaching airport security. Let the investigation run it's course and inflict punishment.

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