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  Reply # 1114198 23-Aug-2014 20:20
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Geektastic: 

Seems a reasonable description.

Censuses are a gross invasion of privacy IMV and clearly a significant minority regard them as something that you can treat with disdain (e.g. there clearly are very few ACTUAL Jedi worshippers vs the numbers claiming to be!). If you say that your house has 48 bedrooms (I have done that before) it is in my view a comment on the fact that (a) the State has no need to know how many bedrooms you have and (b) the State already knows, considering they granted Building Regulations approval and planning approval for your dwelling.

The government of nations seem to feel they have a right to impose whatever they want on us. I can imagine the response if we decided to charge them for our time in supplying them with the information they want (as they often do to us when we want  things from them!).


And heaven forbid you run a business and get selected by Statistics NZ for the ongoing study of business financials.  You know, the one where you're required by law to provide your business accounts monthly for four years to Statistics for... whatever the hell they want it for.  In the format they require.  With no compensation of course, it's your civic duty.

Or if your household gets selected for the ongoing census where Stats NZ requires you to answer a phone study once a week for four years - which you're legally required to do.

Imagine being legally required to answer every market researcher who calls your house for several years.  Stats NZ can pretty much do that.

It's patently bollocks IMO.

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  Reply # 1114201 23-Aug-2014 20:24
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We did the 7 year income etc survey. The biggest pain was my son was in the Army when one of the sessions needed to be done and he was on basic training and they wanted to interrupt it, I told them to sod off. Another one he was in East Timor I told them feel free to into harms way_ they declined this time




Mike
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The views stated in my posts are my personal views and not that of any other organisation.

 

 It's our only home, lets clean it up then...

 

Take My Advice, Pull Down Your Pants And Slide On The Ice!

 

 




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  Reply # 1114272 23-Aug-2014 22:45
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Kyanar:
Geektastic: 

Seems a reasonable description.

Censuses are a gross invasion of privacy IMV and clearly a significant minority regard them as something that you can treat with disdain (e.g. there clearly are very few ACTUAL Jedi worshippers vs the numbers claiming to be!). If you say that your house has 48 bedrooms (I have done that before) it is in my view a comment on the fact that (a) the State has no need to know how many bedrooms you have and (b) the State already knows, considering they granted Building Regulations approval and planning approval for your dwelling.

The government of nations seem to feel they have a right to impose whatever they want on us. I can imagine the response if we decided to charge them for our time in supplying them with the information they want (as they often do to us when we want  things from them!).


And heaven forbid you run a business and get selected by Statistics NZ for the ongoing study of business financials.  You know, the one where you're required by law to provide your business accounts monthly for four years to Statistics for... whatever the hell they want it for.  In the format they require.  With no compensation of course, it's your civic duty.

Or if your household gets selected for the ongoing census where Stats NZ requires you to answer a phone study once a week for four years - which you're legally required to do.

Imagine being legally required to answer every market researcher who calls your house for several years.  Stats NZ can pretty much do that.

It's patently bollocks IMO.


It most certainly is NOT bollocks. As much as I would hate to be forced to participate in these studies, at the end of the day, it's part of accepting living in paradise. As far as I know most 1st world countries have it, including Australia. You could however feel free to move to another more "desirable" location to avoid the inconvenience. 

In Thailand they don't call you on the phone once a week, they would just drag you into an alley and extract the information from you with a spikey truncheon :) 

For the record, I was required to do the company income one and whilst I wasn't happy about it, and wanted to see if it was required, I did in the end comply as it is part of my responsibilities as a Kiwi.





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  Reply # 1114316 23-Aug-2014 23:42
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networkn:
Kyanar:
Geektastic: 

Seems a reasonable description.

Censuses are a gross invasion of privacy IMV and clearly a significant minority regard them as something that you can treat with disdain (e.g. there clearly are very few ACTUAL Jedi worshippers vs the numbers claiming to be!). If you say that your house has 48 bedrooms (I have done that before) it is in my view a comment on the fact that (a) the State has no need to know how many bedrooms you have and (b) the State already knows, considering they granted Building Regulations approval and planning approval for your dwelling.

The government of nations seem to feel they have a right to impose whatever they want on us. I can imagine the response if we decided to charge them for our time in supplying them with the information they want (as they often do to us when we want  things from them!).


And heaven forbid you run a business and get selected by Statistics NZ for the ongoing study of business financials.  You know, the one where you're required by law to provide your business accounts monthly for four years to Statistics for... whatever the hell they want it for.  In the format they require.  With no compensation of course, it's your civic duty.

Or if your household gets selected for the ongoing census where Stats NZ requires you to answer a phone study once a week for four years - which you're legally required to do.

Imagine being legally required to answer every market researcher who calls your house for several years.  Stats NZ can pretty much do that.

It's patently bollocks IMO.


It most certainly is NOT bollocks. As much as I would hate to be forced to participate in these studies, at the end of the day, it's part of accepting living in paradise. As far as I know most 1st world countries have it, including Australia. You could however feel free to move to another more "desirable" location to avoid the inconvenience. 

In Thailand they don't call you on the phone once a week, they would just drag you into an alley and extract the information from you with a spikey truncheon :) 

For the record, I was required to do the company income one and whilst I wasn't happy about it, and wanted to see if it was required, I did in the end comply as it is part of my responsibilities as a Kiwi.






If you say so.

I live in New Zealand, not 'paradise' though - it's nice and all, but it sure ain't paradise -  and I certainly do not believe that supplying free information to the State is any part of my responsibility as anything!







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  Reply # 1114317 23-Aug-2014 23:46
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Geektastic:
networkn:
Kyanar:
Geektastic: 

Seems a reasonable description.

Censuses are a gross invasion of privacy IMV and clearly a significant minority regard them as something that you can treat with disdain (e.g. there clearly are very few ACTUAL Jedi worshippers vs the numbers claiming to be!). If you say that your house has 48 bedrooms (I have done that before) it is in my view a comment on the fact that (a) the State has no need to know how many bedrooms you have and (b) the State already knows, considering they granted Building Regulations approval and planning approval for your dwelling.

The government of nations seem to feel they have a right to impose whatever they want on us. I can imagine the response if we decided to charge them for our time in supplying them with the information they want (as they often do to us when we want  things from them!).


And heaven forbid you run a business and get selected by Statistics NZ for the ongoing study of business financials.  You know, the one where you're required by law to provide your business accounts monthly for four years to Statistics for... whatever the hell they want it for.  In the format they require.  With no compensation of course, it's your civic duty.

Or if your household gets selected for the ongoing census where Stats NZ requires you to answer a phone study once a week for four years - which you're legally required to do.

Imagine being legally required to answer every market researcher who calls your house for several years.  Stats NZ can pretty much do that.

It's patently bollocks IMO.


It most certainly is NOT bollocks. As much as I would hate to be forced to participate in these studies, at the end of the day, it's part of accepting living in paradise. As far as I know most 1st world countries have it, including Australia. You could however feel free to move to another more "desirable" location to avoid the inconvenience. 

In Thailand they don't call you on the phone once a week, they would just drag you into an alley and extract the information from you with a spikey truncheon :) 

For the record, I was required to do the company income one and whilst I wasn't happy about it, and wanted to see if it was required, I did in the end comply as it is part of my responsibilities as a Kiwi.






If you say so.

I live in New Zealand, not 'paradise' though - it's nice and all, but it sure ain't paradise -  and I certainly do not believe that supplying free information to the State is any part of my responsibility as anything!


That's quite alright, you are perfectly entitled to be wrong :) At the end of the day, your opinion here doesn't make a shred of difference. It's the law, as has been proven in the very instances that started this thread. 


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  Reply # 1114318 23-Aug-2014 23:46
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Kyanar:
Geektastic: 

Seems a reasonable description.

Censuses are a gross invasion of privacy IMV and clearly a significant minority regard them as something that you can treat with disdain (e.g. there clearly are very few ACTUAL Jedi worshippers vs the numbers claiming to be!). If you say that your house has 48 bedrooms (I have done that before) it is in my view a comment on the fact that (a) the State has no need to know how many bedrooms you have and (b) the State already knows, considering they granted Building Regulations approval and planning approval for your dwelling.

The government of nations seem to feel they have a right to impose whatever they want on us. I can imagine the response if we decided to charge them for our time in supplying them with the information they want (as they often do to us when we want  things from them!).


And heaven forbid you run a business and get selected by Statistics NZ for the ongoing study of business financials.  You know, the one where you're required by law to provide your business accounts monthly for four years to Statistics for... whatever the hell they want it for.  In the format they require.  With no compensation of course, it's your civic duty.

Or if your household gets selected for the ongoing census where Stats NZ requires you to answer a phone study once a week for four years - which you're legally required to do.

Imagine being legally required to answer every market researcher who calls your house for several years.  Stats NZ can pretty much do that.

It's patently bollocks IMO.


Especially since the State already has all that information as far as income etc goes via that well known source the IRD...! And your accounts are filed annually.

They collect endless stats and do sweet FA with them: I see very little in the way of significant forward planning for 'New Zealand 2114' going on. We are lucky if local government and central government manage a 10 year time horizon, never mind 50 or 100.







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  Reply # 1114319 23-Aug-2014 23:49
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Geektastic:
Kyanar:
Geektastic: 

Seems a reasonable description.

Censuses are a gross invasion of privacy IMV and clearly a significant minority regard them as something that you can treat with disdain (e.g. there clearly are very few ACTUAL Jedi worshippers vs the numbers claiming to be!). If you say that your house has 48 bedrooms (I have done that before) it is in my view a comment on the fact that (a) the State has no need to know how many bedrooms you have and (b) the State already knows, considering they granted Building Regulations approval and planning approval for your dwelling.

The government of nations seem to feel they have a right to impose whatever they want on us. I can imagine the response if we decided to charge them for our time in supplying them with the information they want (as they often do to us when we want  things from them!).


And heaven forbid you run a business and get selected by Statistics NZ for the ongoing study of business financials.  You know, the one where you're required by law to provide your business accounts monthly for four years to Statistics for... whatever the hell they want it for.  In the format they require.  With no compensation of course, it's your civic duty.

Or if your household gets selected for the ongoing census where Stats NZ requires you to answer a phone study once a week for four years - which you're legally required to do.

Imagine being legally required to answer every market researcher who calls your house for several years.  Stats NZ can pretty much do that.

It's patently bollocks IMO.


Especially since the State already has all that information as far as income etc goes via that well known source the IRD...! And your accounts are filed annually.

They collect endless stats and do sweet FA with them: I see very little in the way of significant forward planning for 'New Zealand 2114' going on. We are lucky if local government and central government manage a 10 year time horizon, never mind 50 or 100.


So then, pray tell what is it you think they collect this information for ? Why would they bother? What do they gain? I think you are being a little harsh, if you don't think that information is used to make plans. A lot of things happen every day you take for granted as a result 
of this information I believe. A long time ago I did some work with standards NZ, they gave me a tour and talked about what they do a bit. Perhaps to put your mind at ease you might wish to ask them to do a tour etc? I found it very interesting some of the analysis they did at the time. 


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  Reply # 1114352 24-Aug-2014 00:28
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JimmyH:
KiwiNZ:
Geektastic:
KiwiNZ: The prosecutions were probably more about sending a message about the requirement to complete the census. I really don't understand why folks don't do this.


Because we are not all blessed with compliant personalities....


Yet people want hospitals, schools, emergency services, care for elderly etc etc in the correct locations where they are needed most


And why do the need to enquire about my racial background and religious views in order to achieve that.

Plus, I note some first world countries (Germany springs to mind) seem to manage all of this stuff quite well, without intrusive censuses at all.


Actually, ethnicity is a good one to poll, while the stats on those subjects are often used by politicians, there is interest in them from other fields.  Say health, while uncommon it's not impossible for a medicine to react differently to people of certain ethic descents, an example (that was actually used on MASH) is Primaquine, which can react badly to people of African or Mediterranean descent (see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Primaquine#Adverse_reactions).  Now lets say something like that happened again and there was a drug or disease in the market/wild that reacted badly to certain ethnicities (due to say genetics), how does the government know where to deploy the most resources?  Ask the Department of Statistics for the most recent census count - okay it might be 4 years out of date, but it might help them realize that say "We don't need to allocate very many resources to Southland for this, because only 1% of the population is [whatever]".

(Just a note on this, I do concede that: The way I recall that the question is asked, is fatally flawed for my example, because say a 2nd generation (living in NZ) person, could identify themselves as NZ European, if say both their parents were of Mediterranean descent and gave birth here, it's a Catch-22 that is likely never able to be solved, but census operations are never 100%, but do still provide the most accurate count/summary of people in NZ to represent them)

Another one is from ethnicity or religion data, a Hospital may decide that because of the large number of [whatever] population/believers that they should add a [insert relevant religious occupation here] or [$language-translator] to their staff/call roster to better cater for the population of the area.

Yes it could be seen as invasive, but I prefer to settle with the belief that there is a good reason/outcome for this, and to be honest, I don't really care if Stats NZ/Govt knows that I'm a NZ European with no religion.

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  Reply # 1114383 24-Aug-2014 07:42
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From someone who spent many years working for and with Government departments and agencies the information gathered in the census is very valuable and put to very good use.

As for the ' but IRD already gathers the income stats' argument , there are very strict privacy rules around information sharing between agencies, as there should be. Also as strange as it may seem people give info in the census that they hide from other agencies like IRD and MSD.




Mike
Retired IT Manager. 
The views stated in my posts are my personal views and not that of any other organisation.

 

 It's our only home, lets clean it up then...

 

Take My Advice, Pull Down Your Pants And Slide On The Ice!

 

 


11716 posts

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  Reply # 1114396 24-Aug-2014 08:36
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networkn:
Geektastic:
Kyanar:
Geektastic: 

Seems a reasonable description.

Censuses are a gross invasion of privacy IMV and clearly a significant minority regard them as something that you can treat with disdain (e.g. there clearly are very few ACTUAL Jedi worshippers vs the numbers claiming to be!). If you say that your house has 48 bedrooms (I have done that before) it is in my view a comment on the fact that (a) the State has no need to know how many bedrooms you have and (b) the State already knows, considering they granted Building Regulations approval and planning approval for your dwelling.

The government of nations seem to feel they have a right to impose whatever they want on us. I can imagine the response if we decided to charge them for our time in supplying them with the information they want (as they often do to us when we want  things from them!).


And heaven forbid you run a business and get selected by Statistics NZ for the ongoing study of business financials.  You know, the one where you're required by law to provide your business accounts monthly for four years to Statistics for... whatever the hell they want it for.  In the format they require.  With no compensation of course, it's your civic duty.

Or if your household gets selected for the ongoing census where Stats NZ requires you to answer a phone study once a week for four years - which you're legally required to do.

Imagine being legally required to answer every market researcher who calls your house for several years.  Stats NZ can pretty much do that.

It's patently bollocks IMO.


Especially since the State already has all that information as far as income etc goes via that well known source the IRD...! And your accounts are filed annually.

They collect endless stats and do sweet FA with them: I see very little in the way of significant forward planning for 'New Zealand 2114' going on. We are lucky if local government and central government manage a 10 year time horizon, never mind 50 or 100.


So then, pray tell what is it you think they collect this information for ? Why would they bother? What do they gain? I think you are being a little harsh, if you don't think that information is used to make plans. A lot of things happen every day you take for granted as a result 
of this information I believe. A long time ago I did some work with standards NZ, they gave me a tour and talked about what they do a bit. Perhaps to put your mind at ease you might wish to ask them to do a tour etc? I found it very interesting some of the analysis they did at the time. 



Like many government things I suspect there is an element of doing it because we have always done it. The machinery of state is not known for a process of continual review and reduction of functions!

There are only around 4.5 million of us. There appears to be a disproportionately large amount of statistical analysis done for such a small place. As someone pointed out earlier, countries as large and prosperous as Germany manage perfectly well without a full population census.





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  Reply # 1114448 24-Aug-2014 10:33
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Geektastic:
networkn:
Geektastic:
Kyanar:
Geektastic: 

Seems a reasonable description.

Censuses are a gross invasion of privacy IMV and clearly a significant minority regard them as something that you can treat with disdain (e.g. there clearly are very few ACTUAL Jedi worshippers vs the numbers claiming to be!). If you say that your house has 48 bedrooms (I have done that before) it is in my view a comment on the fact that (a) the State has no need to know how many bedrooms you have and (b) the State already knows, considering they granted Building Regulations approval and planning approval for your dwelling.

The government of nations seem to feel they have a right to impose whatever they want on us. I can imagine the response if we decided to charge them for our time in supplying them with the information they want (as they often do to us when we want  things from them!).


And heaven forbid you run a business and get selected by Statistics NZ for the ongoing study of business financials.  You know, the one where you're required by law to provide your business accounts monthly for four years to Statistics for... whatever the hell they want it for.  In the format they require.  With no compensation of course, it's your civic duty.

Or if your household gets selected for the ongoing census where Stats NZ requires you to answer a phone study once a week for four years - which you're legally required to do.

Imagine being legally required to answer every market researcher who calls your house for several years.  Stats NZ can pretty much do that.

It's patently bollocks IMO.


Especially since the State already has all that information as far as income etc goes via that well known source the IRD...! And your accounts are filed annually.

They collect endless stats and do sweet FA with them: I see very little in the way of significant forward planning for 'New Zealand 2114' going on. We are lucky if local government and central government manage a 10 year time horizon, never mind 50 or 100.


So then, pray tell what is it you think they collect this information for ? Why would they bother? What do they gain? I think you are being a little harsh, if you don't think that information is used to make plans. A lot of things happen every day you take for granted as a result 
of this information I believe. A long time ago I did some work with standards NZ, they gave me a tour and talked about what they do a bit. Perhaps to put your mind at ease you might wish to ask them to do a tour etc? I found it very interesting some of the analysis they did at the time. 



Like many government things I suspect there is an element of doing it because we have always done it. The machinery of state is not known for a process of continual review and reduction of functions!

There are only around 4.5 million of us. There appears to be a disproportionately large amount of statistical analysis done for such a small place. As someone pointed out earlier, countries as large and prosperous as Germany manage perfectly well without a full population census.


Actually statistical analysis is more important for a population our size and the geographical spread. It takes more analysis in order to fully ascertain needs of the spread communities so that services are targeted for most need thus better utilising tax payer monies.




Mike
Retired IT Manager. 
The views stated in my posts are my personal views and not that of any other organisation.

 

 It's our only home, lets clean it up then...

 

Take My Advice, Pull Down Your Pants And Slide On The Ice!

 

 




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  Reply # 1114464 24-Aug-2014 11:07
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Actually statistical analysis is more important for a population our size and the geographical spread. It takes more analysis in order to fully ascertain needs of the spread communities so that services are targeted for most need thus better utilising tax payer monies.



I think you are wasting your time. For some people on particular topics, it would seem "I don't wanna" trumps all evidence fact and reason. 

 

Regardless of his opinion on this, it's law. He can comply, move, or pay the aforementioned taxation for the privilege of not complying with the laws, when it suits him.


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  Reply # 1114726 24-Aug-2014 19:16
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networkn:
 

Actually statistical analysis is more important for a population our size and the geographical spread. It takes more analysis in order to fully ascertain needs of the spread communities so that services are targeted for most need thus better utilising tax payer monies.



I think you are wasting your time. For some people on particular topics, it would seem "I don't wanna" trumps all evidence fact and reason.  Regardless of his opinion on this, it's law. He can comply, move, or pay the aforementioned taxation for the privilege of not complying with the laws, when it suits him.



Actually, paying the taxation doesn't really work.  You see, the fine is $500 for not filling in the form, plus $20 per day until the form is filled in.  So that would become a $7000 per year tax, stacking for every census you refuse to do.  After 60 years, you'd be paying about $70000 per year in fines for not doing the census(es).



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  Reply # 1114731 24-Aug-2014 19:26
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Kyanar:
networkn:
 

Actually statistical analysis is more important for a population our size and the geographical spread. It takes more analysis in order to fully ascertain needs of the spread communities so that services are targeted for most need thus better utilising tax payer monies.



I think you are wasting your time. For some people on particular topics, it would seem "I don't wanna" trumps all evidence fact and reason.  Regardless of his opinion on this, it's law. He can comply, move, or pay the aforementioned taxation for the privilege of not complying with the laws, when it suits him.



Actually, paying the taxation doesn't really work.  You see, the fine is $500 for not filling in the form, plus $20 per day until the form is filled in.  So that would become a $7000 per year tax, stacking for every census you refuse to do.  After 60 years, you'd be paying about $70000 per year in fines for not doing the census(es).


Well I guess it will depend how strongly he feels his privacy is being invaded or how wealthy he is. 

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  Reply # 1114794 24-Aug-2014 21:06
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Geektastic: [Snippity] countries as large and prosperous as Germany manage perfectly well without a full population census.


If you lived in Germany I'm almost sure you would be picked for the population sample.

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