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networkn
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  #1118724 30-Aug-2014 19:50
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MaxLV:
Fred99:
mattwnz:
Fred99:
mattwnz: Why should she after the Oravida thing? What did she do so wrong with that?


http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/9818950/Judith-Collins-comes-clean-about-dinner

If that isn't self-explanatory, then...

I'm glad to see her go.  Smug authoritarians in particular need to be squeaky-clean.  She wasn't.  Karma.


Is that a major thing though, to lose your job over?


Yes - IMO it is, but that wasn't the final straw anyway.
The time to use your position as an elected representative to feather your own nest in the world of business is after you quit politics.



I'm astounded at the assumptions so many are making in this thread that she (Collins) is the ONLY thing wrong with this government, it's election campaign, and the dirty politics it is involved in. She isn't the only one who needs to go. She's only one of many. The dirty politics goes right to Key's office and his senior advisers, and hopefully they'll (this government) all be held accountable on September 20th.  The dirty politics aren't from the opposition smearing the national party and government, it's come from their OWN dirty political behaviour, as revealed by the emails of the government and it's hangers on... 


Haha well you seem to be under the illusion that other parties have never been involved in such behaviour. The only thing that is different is that right now Labour aren't the subject of this, which could well change. Politics is dirty and if you think the opposition hasn't done similar, you are living in lala land. I suspect all parties will learn from this particular issue and move on in a better way, but to suggest it warrants a change in Govt as a result of it, is just bizarre.


reven
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  #1118729 30-Aug-2014 19:53
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anyone know the new national MP for papakura?  I'm in that distract, really didnt want to vote for Judith Collins, but did want to vote national (really dont want to get into a political debate as to why etc :P)

 
 
 
 


alexx
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  #1118730 30-Aug-2014 19:55
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I guess she ran out of final warnings.




#include <standard.disclaimer>


mattwnz
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  #1118733 30-Aug-2014 20:03
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networkn:
MaxLV:
Fred99:
mattwnz:
Fred99:
mattwnz: Why should she after the Oravida thing? What did she do so wrong with that?


http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/9818950/Judith-Collins-comes-clean-about-dinner

If that isn't self-explanatory, then...

I'm glad to see her go.  Smug authoritarians in particular need to be squeaky-clean.  She wasn't.  Karma.


Is that a major thing though, to lose your job over?


Yes - IMO it is, but that wasn't the final straw anyway.
The time to use your position as an elected representative to feather your own nest in the world of business is after you quit politics.



I'm astounded at the assumptions so many are making in this thread that she (Collins) is the ONLY thing wrong with this government, it's election campaign, and the dirty politics it is involved in. She isn't the only one who needs to go. She's only one of many. The dirty politics goes right to Key's office and his senior advisers, and hopefully they'll (this government) all be held accountable on September 20th.  The dirty politics aren't from the opposition smearing the national party and government, it's come from their OWN dirty political behaviour, as revealed by the emails of the government and it's hangers on... 


Haha well you seem to be under the illusion that other parties have never been involved in such behaviour. The only thing that is different is that right now Labour aren't the subject of this, which could well change. Politics is dirty and if you think the opposition hasn't done similar, you are living in lala land. I suspect all parties will learn from this particular issue and move on in a better way, but to suggest it warrants a change in Govt as a result of it, is just bizarre.



Yes it happens with every party, and I suspect before the days of emails, it used to be a lot worse. The problem is that the public buy into it, and vote based on it rather than the actual policies. It is not helped by the media where a lot of it is created from. I remember when the meida were allowed to film in parliament, and started filming politicians sleeping and picking their noses etc in the house, and this was fixed by doing filming of the house in house. Otherwise these things get in the way of the real issues.

Stu

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  #1118743 30-Aug-2014 20:20
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reven: anyone know the new national MP for papakura?  I'm in that distract, really didnt want to vote for Judith Collins, but did want to vote national (really dont want to get into a political debate as to why etc :P)



From what I've read, Judith Collins hasn't resigned from the National Party and is still standing for the Papakura electorate.




Keep calm, and carry on posting.


mattwnz
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  #1118746 30-Aug-2014 20:29
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reven: anyone know the new national MP for papakura?  I'm in that distract, really didnt want to vote for Judith Collins, but did want to vote national (really dont want to get into a political debate as to why etc :P)

 

She's only resigned as a minister, not from parliament. With MMP, you have two votes, one for the party and one for a candidate, and they don't have to be a member of the party you vote for. Many people split their vote, although I still think many people don't understand MMP.

MaxLV
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  #1118754 30-Aug-2014 21:06
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networkn:
MaxLV:
Fred99:
mattwnz:
Fred99:
mattwnz: Why should she after the Oravida thing? What did she do so wrong with that?


http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/9818950/Judith-Collins-comes-clean-about-dinner

If that isn't self-explanatory, then...

I'm glad to see her go.  Smug authoritarians in particular need to be squeaky-clean.  She wasn't.  Karma.


Is that a major thing though, to lose your job over?


Yes - IMO it is, but that wasn't the final straw anyway.
The time to use your position as an elected representative to feather your own nest in the world of business is after you quit politics.



I'm astounded at the assumptions so many are making in this thread that she (Collins) is the ONLY thing wrong with this government, it's election campaign, and the dirty politics it is involved in. She isn't the only one who needs to go. She's only one of many. The dirty politics goes right to Key's office and his senior advisers, and hopefully they'll (this government) all be held accountable on September 20th.  The dirty politics aren't from the opposition smearing the national party and government, it's come from their OWN dirty political behaviour, as revealed by the emails of the government and it's hangers on... 


Haha well you seem to be under the illusion that other parties have never been involved in such behaviour. The only thing that is different is that right now Labour aren't the subject of this, which could well change. Politics is dirty and if you think the opposition hasn't done similar, you are living in lala land. I suspect all parties will learn from this particular issue and move on in a better way, but to suggest it warrants a change in Govt as a result of it, is just bizarre.



Just because *you say* someone else does it, doesn't excuse you doing it, especially when you're the government. This sad sorry excuse of the national party and senior politicians (John Key) of the NZ Government is at best, stupid and is no defence. That the Government and it's supporters think it is just shows how unfit they are to govern.

 
 
 
 


gzt

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  #1118756 30-Aug-2014 21:15
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I just started watching that TV3 news item: [Matt, thanks for pointing to that]

6PM-BULLETIN-Saturday-August-30-2014.

One breath taking item among many -> TV3 found 6 people who voted for Collins last time. 5 of whom are now thinking they will not be voting for her this time.

Can National change their Papakura candidate this close to the election? I presume they can.

networkn
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  #1118758 30-Aug-2014 21:17
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MaxLV:
networkn:
MaxLV:
Fred99:
mattwnz:
Fred99:
mattwnz: Why should she after the Oravida thing? What did she do so wrong with that?


http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/9818950/Judith-Collins-comes-clean-about-dinner

If that isn't self-explanatory, then...

I'm glad to see her go.  Smug authoritarians in particular need to be squeaky-clean.  She wasn't.  Karma.


Is that a major thing though, to lose your job over?


Yes - IMO it is, but that wasn't the final straw anyway.
The time to use your position as an elected representative to feather your own nest in the world of business is after you quit politics.



I'm astounded at the assumptions so many are making in this thread that she (Collins) is the ONLY thing wrong with this government, it's election campaign, and the dirty politics it is involved in. She isn't the only one who needs to go. She's only one of many. The dirty politics goes right to Key's office and his senior advisers, and hopefully they'll (this government) all be held accountable on September 20th.  The dirty politics aren't from the opposition smearing the national party and government, it's come from their OWN dirty political behaviour, as revealed by the emails of the government and it's hangers on... 


Haha well you seem to be under the illusion that other parties have never been involved in such behaviour. The only thing that is different is that right now Labour aren't the subject of this, which could well change. Politics is dirty and if you think the opposition hasn't done similar, you are living in lala land. I suspect all parties will learn from this particular issue and move on in a better way, but to suggest it warrants a change in Govt as a result of it, is just bizarre.



Just because *you say* someone else does it, doesn't excuse you doing it, especially when you're the government. This sad sorry excuse of the national party and senior politicians (John Key) of the NZ Government is at best, stupid and is no defence. That the Government and it's supporters think it is just shows how unfit they are to govern.


They are not saying that, *I* am saying that (and you are deliberately missing the point), and your criteria for why they are unfit to Govern is the same reason if we applied that logic, we would have no Government. Labour has done in this in the past (and I'd be happy to donate $100 to charity if within 12 months something doesn't come out to indicate it), and none of the smaller parties could lead (could you imagine the state of the economy if Greens were allowed control of economic policy?).

If you take your clear dislike of the current leadership, and emotion, out of the picture, you will see that Labour are not fit to lead right now, National has done a pretty reasonable job, (Obviously not perfect), given the balance they have had to strike to keep as many people happy and deal with Economic Crisis and Earthquakes which have cost us BILLIONS.

Could National do better, sure. Should they clean up the party a little, probably, but does what has gone on make them unfit to lead, I don't think so. I believe that most sensible people don't believe so either.

The issues displayed over the Dirty Politics doesn't trump the fact that Labour don't have any clear idea on what or how they would lead if they got into power, they have made misstep after misstep and had leadership change again and again. They have admitted themselves this week they aren't sure how they will make the policies they HAVE mentioned work, and despite for the last 18 months vehemently opposing asset sales and indicating they will reverse them, have come out and said, they can no longer justify it. Sadly for Labour, a lot of what they have said, is done without enough thought. 





driller2000
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  #1118779 30-Aug-2014 22:10
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networkn:
MaxLV:
Fred99:
mattwnz:
Fred99:
mattwnz: Why should she after the Oravida thing? What did she do so wrong with that?


http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/9818950/Judith-Collins-comes-clean-about-dinner

If that isn't self-explanatory, then...

I'm glad to see her go.  Smug authoritarians in particular need to be squeaky-clean.  She wasn't.  Karma.


Is that a major thing though, to lose your job over?


Yes - IMO it is, but that wasn't the final straw anyway.
The time to use your position as an elected representative to feather your own nest in the world of business is after you quit politics.



I'm astounded at the assumptions so many are making in this thread that she (Collins) is the ONLY thing wrong with this government, it's election campaign, and the dirty politics it is involved in. She isn't the only one who needs to go. She's only one of many. The dirty politics goes right to Key's office and his senior advisers, and hopefully they'll (this government) all be held accountable on September 20th.  The dirty politics aren't from the opposition smearing the national party and government, it's come from their OWN dirty political behaviour, as revealed by the emails of the government and it's hangers on... 


Haha well you seem to be under the illusion that other parties have never been involved in such behaviour. The only thing that is different is that right now Labour aren't the subject of this, which could well change. Politics is dirty and if you think the opposition hasn't done similar, you are living in lala land. I suspect all parties will learn from this particular issue and move on in a better way, but to suggest it warrants a change in Govt as a result of it, is just bizarre.



this excuse ie. "they are doing it too" is beyond the pale - it's the same one criminals and thugs use to justify their behaviour ....funny that

and if there was any evidence that any other party or MP's did what has been alleged in Dirty Politics - then i would equally be disgusted at the abuse of power these allegations suggest

it is also interesting (to me at least) to note that while key and co keep referring to it ad nauseum (like some failed jedi mind trick) as a "smear campaign from the left" - pretty much ALL(?) of the allegations remain unchallenged OFFICIALLY - ie. i haven't seen any defamation cases underway against hager, have you? this to me suggests the allegations stand up and that is a real worry for anyone who cares about transparency, appropriate use of power and the degree of trust we have to place in those we elect to run our country




Geektastic
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  #1118793 30-Aug-2014 22:49
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MaxLV:
networkn:
MaxLV:
Fred99:
mattwnz:
Fred99:
mattwnz: Why should she after the Oravida thing? What did she do so wrong with that?


http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/9818950/Judith-Collins-comes-clean-about-dinner

If that isn't self-explanatory, then...

I'm glad to see her go.  Smug authoritarians in particular need to be squeaky-clean.  She wasn't.  Karma.


Is that a major thing though, to lose your job over?


Yes - IMO it is, but that wasn't the final straw anyway.
The time to use your position as an elected representative to feather your own nest in the world of business is after you quit politics.



I'm astounded at the assumptions so many are making in this thread that she (Collins) is the ONLY thing wrong with this government, it's election campaign, and the dirty politics it is involved in. She isn't the only one who needs to go. She's only one of many. The dirty politics goes right to Key's office and his senior advisers, and hopefully they'll (this government) all be held accountable on September 20th.  The dirty politics aren't from the opposition smearing the national party and government, it's come from their OWN dirty political behaviour, as revealed by the emails of the government and it's hangers on... 


Haha well you seem to be under the illusion that other parties have never been involved in such behaviour. The only thing that is different is that right now Labour aren't the subject of this, which could well change. Politics is dirty and if you think the opposition hasn't done similar, you are living in lala land. I suspect all parties will learn from this particular issue and move on in a better way, but to suggest it warrants a change in Govt as a result of it, is just bizarre.



Just because *you say* someone else does it, doesn't excuse you doing it, especially when you're the government. This sad sorry excuse of the national party and senior politicians (John Key) of the NZ Government is at best, stupid and is no defence. That the Government and it's supporters think it is just shows how unfit they are to govern.


Not really. Economic policy, foreign policy, defence policy, health policy etc are all worthy of far more weight in debating who is fit to govern in my view.

All this is petty and childish and largely related to how much money the person who wrote the book can cream off before it fades away - wouldn't surprise me if he was the hacker. The NZ press go on as if the government are busy taking out hits on the opposition or something - I can only assume because there really isn't much actual news to talk about.





networkn
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  #1118795 30-Aug-2014 22:52
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Not really. Economic policy, foreign policy, defence policy, health policy etc are all worthy of far more weight in debating who is fit to govern in my view.

All this is petty and childish and largely related to how much money the person who wrote the book can cream off before it fades away - wouldn't surprise me if he was the hacker. The NZ press go on as if the government are busy taking out hits on the opposition or something - I can only assume because there really isn't much actual news to talk about.


Couldn't have said it better myself. 

manaia
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  #1118816 31-Aug-2014 06:04
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gzt: Can National change their Papakura candidate this close to the election? I presume they can.


No - too late.

nakedmolerat
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  #1118817 31-Aug-2014 06:49
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Well we can be clear now that this is NOT a left smear campaign since the smoking gun has been revealed!





MikeB4
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  #1118827 31-Aug-2014 07:53
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I think we have only seen the tip of the iceberg with this mess

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