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gzt

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  # 1118831 31-Aug-2014 08:39
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Seems like it. The actual email here is far less damaging than the previous one. The previous one was a sound basis for a resignation/firing. On this one Collins is not even a sender or recipient. I would guess a lot more is known behind the scenes. Therefore I'd guess the PM is still going to face a lot of questions about what was known when.

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  # 1118832 31-Aug-2014 08:42
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Geektastic: All this is petty and childish and largely related to how much money the person who wrote the book can cream off before it fades away - wouldn't surprise me if he was the hacker.


It is petty and childish but it relates to Slater becoming a gun for hire. It costs money to run with his Hooray Henry mates and he must miss his former income protection insurance. Once he became a muck spreader Collins should have kept her distance. Rather than looking for a hacker I wouldn't be surprised if the source turned out to be one of Slater's circle of "friends".

 
 
 
 


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  # 1118866 31-Aug-2014 10:56
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networkn:
MaxLV:
networkn:
MaxLV:
Fred99:
mattwnz:
Fred99:
mattwnz: Why should she after the Oravida thing? What did she do so wrong with that?


http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/9818950/Judith-Collins-comes-clean-about-dinner

If that isn't self-explanatory, then...

I'm glad to see her go.  Smug authoritarians in particular need to be squeaky-clean.  She wasn't.  Karma.


Is that a major thing though, to lose your job over?


Yes - IMO it is, but that wasn't the final straw anyway.
The time to use your position as an elected representative to feather your own nest in the world of business is after you quit politics.



I'm astounded at the assumptions so many are making in this thread that she (Collins) is the ONLY thing wrong with this government, it's election campaign, and the dirty politics it is involved in. She isn't the only one who needs to go. She's only one of many. The dirty politics goes right to Key's office and his senior advisers, and hopefully they'll (this government) all be held accountable on September 20th.  The dirty politics aren't from the opposition smearing the national party and government, it's come from their OWN dirty political behaviour, as revealed by the emails of the government and it's hangers on... 


Haha well you seem to be under the illusion that other parties have never been involved in such behaviour. The only thing that is different is that right now Labour aren't the subject of this, which could well change. Politics is dirty and if you think the opposition hasn't done similar, you are living in lala land. I suspect all parties will learn from this particular issue and move on in a better way, but to suggest it warrants a change in Govt as a result of it, is just bizarre.



Just because *you say* someone else does it, doesn't excuse you doing it, especially when you're the government. This sad sorry excuse of the national party and senior politicians (John Key) of the NZ Government is at best, stupid and is no defence. That the Government and it's supporters think it is just shows how unfit they are to govern.


They are not saying that, *I* am saying that (and you are deliberately missing the point), and your criteria for why they are unfit to Govern is the same reason if we applied that logic, we would have no Government. Labour has done in this in the past (and I'd be happy to donate $100 to charity if within 12 months something doesn't come out to indicate it), and none of the smaller parties could lead (could you imagine the state of the economy if Greens were allowed control of economic policy?).

If you take your clear dislike of the current leadership, and emotion, out of the picture, you will see that Labour are not fit to lead right now, National has done a pretty reasonable job, (Obviously not perfect), given the balance they have had to strike to keep as many people happy and deal with Economic Crisis and Earthquakes which have cost us BILLIONS.

Could National do better, sure. Should they clean up the party a little, probably, but does what has gone on make them unfit to lead, I don't think so. I believe that most sensible people don't believe so either.

The issues displayed over the Dirty Politics doesn't trump the fact that Labour don't have any clear idea on what or how they would lead if they got into power, they have made misstep after misstep and had leadership change again and again. They have admitted themselves this week they aren't sure how they will make the policies they HAVE mentioned work, and despite for the last 18 months vehemently opposing asset sales and indicating they will reverse them, have come out and said, they can no longer justify it. Sadly for Labour, a lot of what they have said, is done without enough thought. 



What part of *you say* dont YOU understand?

That you support the National government because *you say* other politicians and political parties behave the same way is really just the typical childish excuse most if not all national party supporters  'trot out' as their justification of their 'support'. Says it all really. Should a politician or political party that uses dirty politics be the government of New Zealand? No they shouldn't.

But hey you can excuse the nasty nats dirty politics if you like, I dont. 

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  # 1118868 31-Aug-2014 10:59
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Geektastic:
MaxLV:
networkn:
MaxLV:
Fred99:
mattwnz:
Fred99:
mattwnz: Why should she after the Oravida thing? What did she do so wrong with that?


http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/9818950/Judith-Collins-comes-clean-about-dinner

If that isn't self-explanatory, then...

I'm glad to see her go.  Smug authoritarians in particular need to be squeaky-clean.  She wasn't.  Karma.


Is that a major thing though, to lose your job over?


Yes - IMO it is, but that wasn't the final straw anyway.
The time to use your position as an elected representative to feather your own nest in the world of business is after you quit politics.



I'm astounded at the assumptions so many are making in this thread that she (Collins) is the ONLY thing wrong with this government, it's election campaign, and the dirty politics it is involved in. She isn't the only one who needs to go. She's only one of many. The dirty politics goes right to Key's office and his senior advisers, and hopefully they'll (this government) all be held accountable on September 20th.  The dirty politics aren't from the opposition smearing the national party and government, it's come from their OWN dirty political behaviour, as revealed by the emails of the government and it's hangers on... 


Haha well you seem to be under the illusion that other parties have never been involved in such behaviour. The only thing that is different is that right now Labour aren't the subject of this, which could well change. Politics is dirty and if you think the opposition hasn't done similar, you are living in lala land. I suspect all parties will learn from this particular issue and move on in a better way, but to suggest it warrants a change in Govt as a result of it, is just bizarre.



Just because *you say* someone else does it, doesn't excuse you doing it, especially when you're the government. This sad sorry excuse of the national party and senior politicians (John Key) of the NZ Government is at best, stupid and is no defence. That the Government and it's supporters think it is just shows how unfit they are to govern.


Not really. Economic policy, foreign policy, defence policy, health policy etc are all worthy of far more weight in debating who is fit to govern in my view.

All this is petty and childish and largely related to how much money the person who wrote the book can cream off before it fades away - wouldn't surprise me if he was the hacker. The NZ press go on as if the government are busy taking out hits on the opposition or something - I can only assume because there really isn't much actual news to talk about.



IOW lets 'blame the messenger' 

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  # 1118869 31-Aug-2014 10:59
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What part of *you say* dont YOU understand?

That you support the National government because *you say* other politicians and political parties behave the same way is really just the typical childish excuse most if not all national party supporters  'trot out' as their justification of their 'support'. Says it all really. Should a politician or political party that uses dirty politics be the government of New Zealand? No they shouldn't.

But hey you can excuse the nasty nats dirty politics if you like, I dont. 


So you think that any party who does this sort of thing shouldn't be in power ? You think this matter is serious enough to take the government and toss them out? Are you denying that Labour has never been involved in dirty politics?

Give me a break.

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Ultimate Geek


  # 1118890 31-Aug-2014 11:10
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networkn:


What part of *you say* dont YOU understand?

That you support the National government because *you say* other politicians and political parties behave the same way is really just the typical childish excuse most if not all national party supporters  'trot out' as their justification of their 'support'. Says it all really. Should a politician or political party that uses dirty politics be the government of New Zealand? No they shouldn't.

But hey you can excuse the nasty nats dirty politics if you like, I dont. 


So you think that any party who does this sort of thing shouldn't be in power ? You think this matter is serious enough to take the government and toss them out? Are you denying that Labour has never been involved in dirty politics?

Give me a break.


I'm not 'saying' anything about *any* other political party or politician in this thread. I'm discussing the dirty politics of the government of New Zealand. What are you 'talking about?'

Your continued 'others do it, why shouldn't the nasty nats do it as well' just doesn't wash. Give it up already. 


As for who I do support, the current 'policies' and leadership of the political party I have always voted for have made me think long and hard about voting for them on September 20th. In all likelihood they wont be getting my votes this time round.  

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  # 1118896 31-Aug-2014 11:21
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A good news article to end the week on. Wonder who'll be next because that Dirty Politics revelation wasn't all Collins' doing 




Professional Forum Lurker


 
 
 
 


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  # 1118907 31-Aug-2014 11:57
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This mess and the related Dotcom rubbish is damaging NZ's reputation.

I think....

1. An independent inquiry into the Dirty Politics and Collins saga should be conducted.
2. The Government should just cancel Dotcoms Visa and residency and deport the wombat.
 




Mike
Retired IT Manager. 
The views stated in my posts are my personal views and not that of any other organisation.

 

There is no planet B

 

 


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  # 1118915 31-Aug-2014 12:20
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KiwiNZ: This mess and the related Dotcom rubbish is damaging NZ's reputation.

I think....

1. An independent inquiry into the Dirty Politics and Collins saga should be conducted.
2. The Government should just cancel Dotcoms Visa and residency and deport the wombat.
 


With whom is our reputation suffering? You don't think other countries have much bigger problems to worry about? 

Fine to deport Visa, once due process has been followed, I don't want him here either.

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  # 1118925 31-Aug-2014 13:01
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networkn:
KiwiNZ: This mess and the related Dotcom rubbish is damaging NZ's reputation.

I think....

1. An independent inquiry into the Dirty Politics and Collins saga should be conducted.
2. The Government should just cancel Dotcoms Visa and residency and deport the wombat.
 


With whom is our reputation suffering? You don't think other countries have much bigger problems to worry about? 

Fine to deport Visa, once due process has been followed, I don't want him here either.


NZ has a reputation of honesty and lack of corruption, this is tarnishing that and recent events are also making us look stupid. I don't give a toss if country B or country C has bigger problems I care about what is happening here.




Mike
Retired IT Manager. 
The views stated in my posts are my personal views and not that of any other organisation.

 

There is no planet B

 

 


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  # 1118927 31-Aug-2014 13:05
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KiwiNZ:
networkn:
KiwiNZ: This mess and the related Dotcom rubbish is damaging NZ's reputation.

I think....

1. An independent inquiry into the Dirty Politics and Collins saga should be conducted.
2. The Government should just cancel Dotcoms Visa and residency and deport the wombat.
 


With whom is our reputation suffering? You don't think other countries have much bigger problems to worry about? 

Fine to deport Visa, once due process has been followed, I don't want him here either.


NZ has a reputation of honesty and lack of corruption, this is tarnishing that and recent events are also making us look stupid. I don't give a toss if country B or country C has bigger problems I care about what is happening here.


Do you have any actual evidence to support the claims that this is actually tarnishing our reputation? I think you are overstating, quite seriously the impact of this on international opinion.

Fine for you to care what's happening here, but to claim it's having a serious impact on our reputation requires evidence, IMO. Seen us lose any big trade deals, or seen anything that indicates that as a direct result of this "scandal" the country is in a worse state as it relates to other countries?


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  # 1118933 31-Aug-2014 13:08
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KiwiNZ: This mess and the related Dotcom rubbish is damaging NZ's reputation.

I think....

1. An independent inquiry into the Dirty Politics and Collins saga should be conducted.
2. The Government should just cancel Dotcoms Visa and residency and deport the wombat.
 


How are the Hager "Dirty Politics" and Dotcom matters related?
The common factor seems to be exposure of some dubious actions by Govt and it's agencies.
If you want to damage NZ's reputation, then the PM's reaction (at least until he sacked Collins) of "nothing to see here - move on" and right-wing commentators' responding that "the other side does it too" would really damage NZ reputation.
This place is at risk of looking a little like Russia - corrupt to the core with a popular leader.
I despise Dotcom - but that isn't good enough reason to deport him.  Perhaps NZ should look at him - and some other high profile cases - and decide whether vast personal wealth should be valid criteria to queue-jump immigration in the first place.  Broach that subject, and of course you're immediately labelled xenophobic - or worse. 
I have little doubt that the present government and much of NZ media is influenced by a loose affiliation of millionaires and billionaires.  And I'm not "left-wing" at all.

gzt

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  # 1118938 31-Aug-2014 13:15
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On Q&A this morning where Hooten is a regular guest Wood made Hooten the PR consultant under pressure and he said he knew about this situation on Wednesday(!!) from a Beehive source. I heard him again in the car on a Radio Live panel where he is a regular guest. There, a rival fellow nat consultant gave him a wind up and he lost all composure for quite a period. This really is a remarkable unfolding.

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  # 1118941 31-Aug-2014 13:25
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networkn:
KiwiNZ:
networkn:
KiwiNZ: This mess and the related Dotcom rubbish is damaging NZ's reputation.

I think....

1. An independent inquiry into the Dirty Politics and Collins saga should be conducted.
2. The Government should just cancel Dotcoms Visa and residency and deport the wombat.
 


With whom is our reputation suffering? You don't think other countries have much bigger problems to worry about? 

Fine to deport Visa, once due process has been followed, I don't want him here either.


NZ has a reputation of honesty and lack of corruption, this is tarnishing that and recent events are also making us look stupid. I don't give a toss if country B or country C has bigger problems I care about what is happening here.


Do you have any actual evidence to support the claims that this is actually tarnishing our reputation? I think you are overstating, quite seriously the impact of this on international opinion.

Fine for you to care what's happening here, but to claim it's having a serious impact on our reputation requires evidence, IMO. Seen us lose any big trade deals, or seen anything that indicates that as a direct result of this "scandal" the country is in a worse state as it relates to other countries?



I don't think I said it had a "serious impact". 




Mike
Retired IT Manager. 
The views stated in my posts are my personal views and not that of any other organisation.

 

There is no planet B

 

 


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  # 1118942 31-Aug-2014 13:30
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Fred99:
KiwiNZ: This mess and the related Dotcom rubbish is damaging NZ's reputation.

I think....

1. An independent inquiry into the Dirty Politics and Collins saga should be conducted.
2. The Government should just cancel Dotcoms Visa and residency and deport the wombat.
 


How are the Hager "Dirty Politics" and Dotcom matters related?
The common factor seems to be exposure of some dubious actions by Govt and it's agencies.
If you want to damage NZ's reputation, then the PM's reaction (at least until he sacked Collins) of "nothing to see here - move on" and right-wing commentators' responding that "the other side does it too" would really damage NZ reputation.
This place is at risk of looking a little like Russia - corrupt to the core with a popular leader.
I despise Dotcom - but that isn't good enough reason to deport him.  Perhaps NZ should look at him - and some other high profile cases - and decide whether vast personal wealth should be valid criteria to queue-jump immigration in the first place.  Broach that subject, and of course you're immediately labelled xenophobic - or worse. 
I have little doubt that the present government and much of NZ media is influenced by a loose affiliation of millionaires and billionaires.  And I'm not "left-wing" at all.


NZ gave him a haven his thanks for that is to threaten, defame the very people that gave it to him and attempt to pervert our democratic process, albeit by stupidity. Dotcom brings nothing to our society at all in fact the opposite, he should never have been granted entry.




Mike
Retired IT Manager. 
The views stated in my posts are my personal views and not that of any other organisation.

 

There is no planet B

 

 


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